Water Drinking.....I know...

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:59 pm

I had a call from a KJ that was referring me some non smoking karaoke singers.

They have a crew of 4-6 with them. The man and woman sing real well.

BUT, they come in and one orders a ginger ale and the rest want pitchers of ice water with glasses.

I called the manager tonight to give him a heads up and asked if they sold bottled water. Yes they do.

And anyone sitting and not spending money will be considered loitering and asked to leave.

I'm ok with that.

This similar conversation happened on Tuesday night. About the drink prices and free refills. And about bands that charge a cover charge.

The bar wants to raise the drink prices and pay the bands and iliminate the cover charge.

The bar has heard many complaints about the cover charge. The bar is also complaining about people that come in and spend $2 and drink free refill pop all night.

They are going to impliment changes to reflect the current economical conditions. He's going in to a survival mode.

So just maybe the water drinkers might lose their luster. I can't blame the bar owner for wanting to survive. If he goes under....so do I.

Go baby go!!!:bowto:

Sabrina59 · Post by **Sabrina59** » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:56 pm

I have really mixed feelings about this, BD. I can certainly understand the bar owner wanting/needing to make money but I can't see alienating the non-drinkers.

Granted, that group is not going to spend as much as a group that comes in and orders shots or mixed drinks all night, but they are customers ... people sitting in the chairs. I've seen people come in, see an empty bar, and leave.

I guess it all depends on how many groups of people are non-drinking customers on any given night. If you have several groups doing this on as regular basis I agree that a hard line needs to be drawn. On the other hand, though, if it's only a table or two, I don't see a huge issue.

First of all, I wouldn't offer free refills on sodas. Selling bottled water is a good option also. I would think it would be hard to refuse to give someone a pitcher of water when you have pitchers, ice and tap water. I'm not sure I would go back, and I would probably bad mouth the establishment.

When I go out, I don't plan on drinking to excess. Hubby and I usually go through two pitchers of beer and, maybe, a couple of mixed drinks ... we're not big spenders at all. Would you have this bar owner ask us to leave?

spotlightjr · Post by **spotlightjr** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:19 am

I think ordering two pitchers of beer and mixed drinks is totally acceptable behavior in a bar and if you decide to order water to sober up for the drive home, which is very responsible, then you have to pay for it as well. Whether it be in a pitcher or bottle.
What are you suggesting that if you spend money on alcohol at the beginning of the night that you should get a free pass on water for the rest? If I order a pitcher of beer at 8:00pm and finish it at 9:30 I should get free water until midnight when I leave? What about the other two and a half hours?
If you're being entertained at any venue by the entertainment then you should have to pay for it. If that means paying for water and soda then so be it. Nobody rides for free.

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:59 am

The picture I'm getting is....this is their standard MO. They're just SLUMMIN'.

Party cheap on everyone elses dime.

Let's put it this way. How do you feel paying for their entertainment all night. With the money you spend and they don't?

Once in a while there should be no complaint. Week after week or night after night is uncalled for. It's just plain Cheap. Stay home if you can afford to go out. If you want to go to a movie you have to pay to get in.

The bar owner appreciated the heads up and informed the bartenders to sell only bottled water.

We are all in this together. If I can't bring in a good paying crowd. I lose my job. Sure the seats are full, but the CASH register isn't. So what counts more? Full house or empty cash register? No money in, means no pay the bills. First thing to go when a bar goes into a survival mode would be the entertainment. Still have to pay the bills to keep the lights on. Next would be the non essential staff.

I want my job...not water free drinkers. The drinkers pay my/everyones wages.

Free water costs the bar money. Toilet flushes. ($) Ice machines running. ($) Water bill. ($) Someone to buy the lemons. ($) The lemons. ($) The person cutting the lemons. ($) The person putting the lemon slice in the free drink. ($)

If they buy no food or drinks, from the list above, add up the cost of one free water.

Now tell me what good did the wasted full seat do? If it was at the bar...maybe someone that was going to buy drinks all night couldn't find a seat and went across the parking lot to spend money all night.

I'm good and my quality show should not be given away. People should have to pay to see a show like mine. The bar should be rewarded for providing a top quality show like mine. The paying customers deserve a quality show like mine.

Not the free water drinkers.

Sing in the shower..and that water ain't free either.

Since most bars serve food too. If you owned the bar do you want a table full of FREE water drinkers taking up seats so someone else that wants to, can't order food and drinks?

Maybe in the good old days..but business' are crashing everyday. Which one will be next? Maybe where you work? In GOD we trust...all others pay CASH.

It's not a non profit soup kitchen, hand out..it's a FOR PROFIT OPERATION.

Hit the road :driving: FREELOADER. :sorry:

Designated freeloader isn't the designated driver.

Markm · Post by **Markm** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:36 am

I see all your points, cheap people are either cheap or broke and probably the establishment is a better place to be than their own place, i have seen people have a cover charge that is redeemable for product once in, also I'm in the food business so here is my plug, flavored coffees are a big trend, a bar having a Keurig brewer and selling K-cups of different flavors, as well as having Ice lemonade or Ice coffee is getting more and more popular, 10 years ago expecting free water from the tap was just something we expected, today patrons should understand a lounge owner needs to pay his bills, maybe these people wanting an inexpensive evening, be the designated driver for 2 people or more and non-alcoholic drinks are on the house.

Post by **wiseguy** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:57 am

Good suggestions Mark. A few bars that I've worked at have solved the freeloader problem by charging a cover charge equal to two drinks. Two tokens are given that are worth one drink each. Once inside all drinks, even soda and water, cost no less than a beer.

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:38 pm

10-15 years or so age the designated driver thing was popular. They had wrist bands or hand stamps for the Designated :driving:

But as with anything, many took advantage of this and also got free non alcoholic drinks.

If the entire table :driving: separately, which usually happens ...who's paying for the enteratinment?

Look at the parking lots. They are always full so that means many :driving: their own car. The majority of the crowd is designated :driving:

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:58 pm

This is all a balancing act the bar owner has to juggle. Between the lack of profit and the risk of a law suit from a drunk driver leaving their place and killing someone.

Either one could be the death of the bar.

Sabrina59 · Post by **Sabrina59** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:51 pm

It is a tight-rope, that's for sure.

Kinda off topic ... I've never heard of a bar owner being prosecuted from serving someone who is obviously drunk and then is involved in an accident. Does this really happen?

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:11 am

YES

First they sue the bar owner and then the bartender and then the beer distributer (store/supplier.)

The lawyers hit everyone trying to score.

We (our Liquor Control Board..LCB) has posters that hang in bars saying they can not serve Visably Intoxicated Persons (VIPs.)

There have been many succesful prosecutions of bars for over serving a drunk :driving: involved in an accident. The last place they stopped gets the bill. (Prosecuted)

I look at it this way...You are the drinker. You are totally responsible for your actions. Even if you keep asking to be served and you know you have had too much. It is up to you to stop asking and stop drinking. Why should a bartender be held responsible for your lack of responsibility?

I think if I was a bar owner I would counter sue you for being irresponsible for your actions. You are out of control. That makes you liable for your actions. (AM I My Brothers Keeper?)

You can be sued as a home owner if the drunk person got drunk at your house. We aren't in Kansas anymore Toto.

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:20 am

It's on the books in CT. It doesn't matter whether you're a bar or not. If it can be proven that you were the last stop before the accident, you are at fault for allowing him to get that drunk.

Sabrina59 · Post by **Sabrina59** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:56 am

I would imagine that my state (California) would have a lot of these cases, but I can't remember hearing about any for a very long time. I think I heard about a couple of cases right after the law went into effect ... but nothing since then.

I agree, BD ... we should take responsibility for our own actions. This is just another nanny law that, in my opinion, we can do without.

Post by **wiseguy** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:06 am

There have been several cases like that here. Not only has the bar owner been sued, but the bartender who served the person as well. Actually, it doesn't even matter if you served the person. If it was your bar they were last in you're responsible.

These ridiculous laws are on the books because of pressure from groups like MADD and others. The goal of these organizations is to eradicate all bars, and alcohol in general, if they could. Now that we live in an age where nobody is solely responsible for their own actions it's easy to get these kind of laws passed.

Lone Wolf · Post by **Lone Wolf** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:58 pm

OK what do you do if you CAN NOT drink Liquor or Soda due to some problem medical or otherwise and want to go sing Karaoke?

Not many clubs I know of serve diet or sugar free drinks except water and I would be dammed if I would pay $2.00 a bottle for water, knowing that most of it is really from the tap anyway.

What do you do with these types of customers, I know they will be rare but they are out there.

Lone Wolf

Post by **wiseguy** » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:13 pm

Lone Wolf wrote:OK what do you do if you CAN NOT drink Liquor or Soda due to some problem medical or otherwise and want to go sing Karaoke?

Not many clubs I know of serve diet or sugar free drinks except water and I would be dammed if I would pay $2.00 a bottle for water, knowing that most of it is really from the tap anyway.

What do you do with these types of customers, I know they will be rare but they are out there.

Lone Wolf

Just excuses to be a freeloader. They should still pay the cover charge. I don't know of a single bar that doesn't have diet cola. If they don't use the tokens, that's up to them. At least they are contributing to the cost of the entertainment.

I don't understand why some people think they deserve things for free that others are paying for.