Sound Choice is again making noise about illegal vs legal songs and hard drives.
Will you ever have to prove you have all the discs/songs you claim to have?
Karaoke KOPS.
I seriously doubt it unless you live in Phoenix, AZ as this is the only place they have shown any activity (outside of internet sales of loaded hard drives). You know they have to be receiving thousands of reports from disgruntled KJs about competitors using pirated music. Where is the evidence that they are doing anything?
The owner of Sound Choice took an investigative team to several cities in AZ. 
They went to suspect bars to see KJs. They delivered letters to bars and KJs.
The letter explains the legalities. The bars are made aware of the posible legal implications. The KJs are given a chance to rectify their song library.
If I was a computer multi-rigger I would be real worried. It's a red flag they are looking for.
They went to suspect bars to see KJs. They delivered letters to bars and KJs.
The letter explains the legalities. The bars are made aware of the posible legal implications. The KJs are given a chance to rectify their song library.
If I was a computer multi-rigger I would be real worried. It's a red flag they are looking for.
That's old news. Let's hear about a single illegal KJ that was prosecuted because of this. I'll bet not even one of them lost any business. If the bar owners there are like the ones here they would throw out those letters as soon as they read them. They're not going to take on the responsibility of investigating the entertainment they hire to see if they are 100% legal. And they're right.Bigdog wrote:The owner of Sound Choice took an investigative team to several cities in AZ.
They went to suspect bars to see KJs. They delivered letters to bars and KJs.
The letter explains the legalities. The bars are made aware of the posible legal implications. The KJs are given a chance to rectify their song library.
If I was a computer multi-rigger I would be real worried. It's a red flag they are looking for.
I know the threating language Sound Choice used in the letters to make bar owners think that they will be held responsible. We all know that Sound Choice has no problem with making up laws to suit their needs. Take the format shifting BS that they had to back off on as an example.
There are several things to consider here.
For example: let's say I want to sue this forum for something I think was said about me. Be it true or not, if it makes it to court, there will be lawyer fees involved just to prove your innocence. These fees could be several thousand dollars as a retainer. It's still money spent defending nothing.
So Sound Choice files suit and 20 bar owners and KJs have to appear. Would you go without a lawyer? Win or lose you need a lawyer. No lawyer I know will show up in court without cash in pocket. Win or lose.
The format shifting issue is real. From what I have read about it. There are copyrights for the owner of the song. There are copyrights for the karaoke company /disc manufacturer word sweep.
Making a back up copy disc to disc, is covered. A copy to a different format is not. A hard drive is a different format. I believe they have a legal stand here. Am I worried about it? NO
I have spent $50,000 for music. Much of which is becoming unusable from the deterioration of the disc media (Foil Oxydation) I refuse to believe that a judge will find me guilty of wrong doing for trying to protect my investment. Many of the discs that have become junk, are Sound Choice discs. Whether it's from inferior blanks or natural causes. Replacement discs can not be ordered because they are out of print.
So hundreds of dollars worth of music I should just consider a loss? When I could have taken steps to preserve my investment?
I'm not selling my library over and over. I'm preserving it.
My original discs stay home in drawers. I'm not dragging them from job to job to prove ownership. They stay at home to keep them from damage. I'll take them to court if I have to.
Computer using multi-riggers will be the easy first targets. By the time they get to me I'll be dead.
Look at their web sites...The first thing they brag about is their multiple systems and 80,000 songs. How big of a guilty red flag do they need to see? It's a written confession. Just sign here to enter your gulity plea.
Shooting fish in a barrel.
Judge: Mr X is this your web site?
Mr X: Yes Sir.
Judge: Mr X do you own four karaoke systems?
Mr X: Yes Sir. Four
Judge: Can you produce a complete set of original discs for each of these four systems?
Mr X: No Sir.
Judge: Why Not Mr X?
GUILTY AS CHARGED. CASE CLOSED....With four questions. No ifs, ands or buts.
For example: let's say I want to sue this forum for something I think was said about me. Be it true or not, if it makes it to court, there will be lawyer fees involved just to prove your innocence. These fees could be several thousand dollars as a retainer. It's still money spent defending nothing.
So Sound Choice files suit and 20 bar owners and KJs have to appear. Would you go without a lawyer? Win or lose you need a lawyer. No lawyer I know will show up in court without cash in pocket. Win or lose.
The format shifting issue is real. From what I have read about it. There are copyrights for the owner of the song. There are copyrights for the karaoke company /disc manufacturer word sweep.
Making a back up copy disc to disc, is covered. A copy to a different format is not. A hard drive is a different format. I believe they have a legal stand here. Am I worried about it? NO
I have spent $50,000 for music. Much of which is becoming unusable from the deterioration of the disc media (Foil Oxydation) I refuse to believe that a judge will find me guilty of wrong doing for trying to protect my investment. Many of the discs that have become junk, are Sound Choice discs. Whether it's from inferior blanks or natural causes. Replacement discs can not be ordered because they are out of print.
So hundreds of dollars worth of music I should just consider a loss? When I could have taken steps to preserve my investment?
I'm not selling my library over and over. I'm preserving it.
My original discs stay home in drawers. I'm not dragging them from job to job to prove ownership. They stay at home to keep them from damage. I'll take them to court if I have to.
Computer using multi-riggers will be the easy first targets. By the time they get to me I'll be dead.
Look at their web sites...The first thing they brag about is their multiple systems and 80,000 songs. How big of a guilty red flag do they need to see? It's a written confession. Just sign here to enter your gulity plea.
Shooting fish in a barrel.
Judge: Mr X is this your web site?
Mr X: Yes Sir.
Judge: Mr X do you own four karaoke systems?
Mr X: Yes Sir. Four
Judge: Can you produce a complete set of original discs for each of these four systems?
Mr X: No Sir.
Judge: Why Not Mr X?
GUILTY AS CHARGED. CASE CLOSED....With four questions. No ifs, ands or buts.
For example: let's say I want to sue this forum for something I think was said about me. Be it true or not, if it makes it to court, there will be lawyer fees involved just to prove your innocence. These fees could be several thousand dollars as a retainer. It's still money spent defending nothing.
But the thing is that frivolous law suits are subject to counter suit. When you lose your frivolous law suit you will probably lose the counter suit and therefore be responsible for all lawyer fees, court costs, and damages.
So Sound Choice files suit and 20 bar owners and KJs have to appear. Would you go without a lawyer? Win or lose you need a lawyer. No lawyer I know will show up in court without cash in pocket. Win or lose.
Sound choice has not filed suit on bar owners and for good reason. They can't win. Do you think that you could be held responsible if you hired a plumber and he used stolen tools to fix your sink? It would have to be proven that the bar owner had full knowledge that the KJ had illegal music before hiring them. Very difficult to do.
How much do you think it would cost a karaoke disc manufacturer to file suit against a KJ? Lawyer fees and court costs would run into the thousands. Being that the vast majority of the KJs using illegal music are far from being wealthy even if proven guilty they would not be able to pay the damages. So, the disc manufacturer ends up spending thousands of dollars to eliminate a single illegal KJ.
If Sound Choice had a case with the format shifting issue why did they back off of it? It's because they can't win this case.The format shifting issue is real. From what I have read about it. There are copyrights for the owner of the song. There are copyrights for the karaoke company /disc manufacturer word sweep.
Making a back up copy disc to disc, is covered. A copy to a different format is not. A hard drive is a different format. I believe they have a legal stand here. Am I worried about it? NO
Maybe you missed this little statement by the KAPA (owned and operated by Sound Choice).
"Am I allowed to make a copy of my discs for archive purposes?
This is one of the most confusing issues involving copyrighted music. It is also one of the arguments often presented by those who want to break the copyright laws. This entire issue revolves around the definition of the class of copyrighted material. By law, you are permitted to make an archive copy of "Software" class copyrighted material. However, music (including Karaoke CDGs) is part of the "Phonorecord" class of copyrighted materials. Archive copies are not permitted in this class. So, no, you may not make an archive copy of your Karaoke discs."
Still think they don't create their own laws.
This is true and It's hard to believe that there are people stupid enough to do this.Computer using multi-riggers will be the easy first targets. By the time they get to me I'll be dead.
Look at their web sites...The first thing they brag about is their multiple systems and 80,000 songs. How big of a guilty red flag do they need to see? It's a written confession. Just sign here to enter your gulity plea.
How much do you think it would cost a karaoke disc manufacturer to file suit against a KJ? Lawyer fees and court costs would run into the thousands. Being that the vast majority of the KJs using illegal music are far from being wealthy even if proven guilty they would not be able to pay the damages. So, the disc manufacturer ends up spending thousands of dollars to eliminate a single illegal KJ.
And as the KJ being charged...you will need the same thousands of dollars to defend yourself. Or beg for mercy.
Sound choice has not filed suit on bar owners and for good reason. They can't win. Do you think that you could be held responsible if you hired a plumber and he used stolen tools to fix your sink? It would have to be proven that the bar owner had full knowledge that the KJ had illegal music before hiring them. Very difficult to do.
Maybe not on the first visit.
When they come back 6 months later....will they have an excuse after they have already been given written notice??? GUILTY...Can't claim ignorance after the notice.
Whether Sound Choice is making up their own rules or not...They only need to win one suit to possibly set a legal precidence.
I wouldn't want to be that test case.
And as the KJ being charged...you will need the same thousands of dollars to defend yourself. Or beg for mercy.
Sound choice has not filed suit on bar owners and for good reason. They can't win. Do you think that you could be held responsible if you hired a plumber and he used stolen tools to fix your sink? It would have to be proven that the bar owner had full knowledge that the KJ had illegal music before hiring them. Very difficult to do.
Maybe not on the first visit.
When they come back 6 months later....will they have an excuse after they have already been given written notice??? GUILTY...Can't claim ignorance after the notice.
Whether Sound Choice is making up their own rules or not...They only need to win one suit to possibly set a legal precidence.
I wouldn't want to be that test case.
My point is that it is not cost effective for them to file suit against the typical illegal KJ.And as the KJ being charged...you will need the same thousands of dollars to defend yourself. Or beg for mercy.
The "notice" that they sent out is only a list of things to look for and not any real evidence of illegal activity. They have no right to ask others to do their investigating for them.When they come back 6 months later....will they have an excuse after they have already been given written notice??? GUILTY...Can't claim ignorance after the notice.
How would you like it if every bar owner wanted you to prove that every one of your songs are legal before they hire you?
My point is that it is not cost effective for them to file suit against the typical illegal KJ.
My point is.... if you are that KJ, you're screwed. Money will be your biggest problem...having enough to pay the lawyer before he even agrees to step one foot into the court room.
As an owner of any establishement, even your house...the OWNER/s AND ONLY THE OWNER is totally responsible for the goings on in that place. PERIOD.
If I allow drug dealers or bookies or prostitutes or poker machines to operate from my establishement, I am guilty of being an accomplise.
IGNORANCE of the law is no excuse.
As a bar owner, will you knowingly allow illegal activity to take place in your bar? Even if it's a KJ, illegal is illegal and you are apparently allowing it by continuing to pay them to do it.
How would you like it if every bar owner wanted you to prove that every one of your songs are legal before they hire you?
So I say as a bar owner ...maybe they should be checking who they have working there.
You make it sound like the bar owner would be a jerk if they wanted to know the answer. It's his business and his a$$ that will be on the line, too. According to Sound Choice.
Would you quit a bar if the owner wanted proof from you?
They will find a state like California (because of the major music business influence and money going into the economy) that has a sympathetic judge to hear the case. But they only need to set presidence one time.
My point is.... if you are that KJ, you're screwed. Money will be your biggest problem...having enough to pay the lawyer before he even agrees to step one foot into the court room.
As an owner of any establishement, even your house...the OWNER/s AND ONLY THE OWNER is totally responsible for the goings on in that place. PERIOD.
If I allow drug dealers or bookies or prostitutes or poker machines to operate from my establishement, I am guilty of being an accomplise.
IGNORANCE of the law is no excuse.
As a bar owner, will you knowingly allow illegal activity to take place in your bar? Even if it's a KJ, illegal is illegal and you are apparently allowing it by continuing to pay them to do it.
How would you like it if every bar owner wanted you to prove that every one of your songs are legal before they hire you?
So I say as a bar owner ...maybe they should be checking who they have working there.
You make it sound like the bar owner would be a jerk if they wanted to know the answer. It's his business and his a$$ that will be on the line, too. According to Sound Choice.
Would you quit a bar if the owner wanted proof from you?
They will find a state like California (because of the major music business influence and money going into the economy) that has a sympathetic judge to hear the case. But they only need to set presidence one time.
Not true. You would have to know that illegal activity was going on. If someone brought drugs into a bar, without the knowledge and/or consent of the bar owner, and the person got busted with the drugs, the bar owner has no liability. I know this as I used to own a nightclub. A bar is just like any other business. If a person walked into Wal-Mart, and started doing lines of coke off of some display case, the store could not be held responsible unless they knowingly allowed this to go on.As an owner of any establishement, even your house...the OWNER/s AND ONLY THE OWNER is totally responsible for the goings on in that place. PERIOD.
So I say as a bar owner ...maybe they should be checking who they have working there.
You make it sound like the bar owner would be a jerk if they wanted to know the answer. It's his business and his a$$ that will be on the line, too. According to Sound Choice.
Would you quit a bar if the owner wanted proof from you?
A letter that simply lists some things that could indicate that a KJ has pirated music is not proof or evidence of anything illegal. In fact, this list would indicate any of us with over 20,000 songs on a hard drive.
Proving to the bar owner that all your songs are legal would mean bringing in all your discs and going through you song book song by song and showing that you have that song on a karaoke disc. And to be really sure you would have to play the beginning of every song to make sure that it is the brand of the disc it's on.
So you're willing to do this at every bar you work at? There's no way that you can make believe that you are.
How would I know that he's illegal? Because he uses a hard drive and has 20,000 songs? There would have to be more evidence than that. As a bar owner am I supposed to spend many hours of my time to check out each and every song on a KJs hard drive? If it ever came to this I think you would see a lot less bars interested in karaoke.Bigdog wrote:And as the bar owner...are you going to keep your illegal wall-to-wall, packed house every week KJ, knowing he's illegal?
