My Tuesday bar gig left a note in with this weeks fee. It said if you are working with the other bars let me know. We really went in the hole last week.
Translation in KJ language. Can you take a cut in pay.
Now this is the bar where we had the crowd steadily increasing until they decided to do a bike night. After that the crowd steadily dropped off. Last week there were approx. 25 at the most in the entire bar all night. This is down from our average 60-80 since they started bike night 2 years ago. As I said it's been dropping off since they started it. It's not because of the no smoking ban because they are still allowed to smoke from an exemption. So it's the bad economy, not smoking. This week wasn't much different.
I feel we are going to lose a lot of week night people. And the weekends may get bigger. Nobody can afford to go out every night of the week, right now. I know I couldn't afford to do it if I just got married.
So now it's coming down to working for a reduce rate on week nights or not working at all. Did I mention I hate CORPORATE GREED, which is the cause of our country's economy failure?
This is the second bad Tuesday in a row. My Wednesday crowd is also dwindling. Bad (slow) for the last 5 out of 6 weeks.
My prediction for DECEMBER, JANUARY, FEBRUARY & MARCH (Maybe APRIL)are ghost town nights. I think my Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays are in serious trouble. Except for the 1st of the month when everyone gets paid. I'm thinking one good week, 2 so-so weeks and one really dead week per month and it could be worse.
Anyone else seeing this situation yet?
Working the Job Price.
One addition...
It's not the karaoke that is the problem. It's still very popular.
I (WE) have no control over how much money people can spend in a month for drinking and entertainment.
However the popularity of the karaoke could take a BIG hit, if nobody can afford to support it every night.
Now it's back to affordability. I feel like a car maker having to decide what is going to work best and keep me having an income and jobs.
It's not the karaoke that is the problem. It's still very popular.
I (WE) have no control over how much money people can spend in a month for drinking and entertainment.
However the popularity of the karaoke could take a BIG hit, if nobody can afford to support it every night.
Now it's back to affordability. I feel like a car maker having to decide what is going to work best and keep me having an income and jobs.
This bar has bands every Friday and Saturday nights.
I heard from reliable sources that the Friday band drew 50 people and the Saturday night band wasn't much better.
The bands play for whatever money is collected at the door. (no cost to the bar unless the band wants a guaranteed payoff. In which case the bar would pony up the missing difference.) I play for a set fee that comes directly out of the bars nightly profit. From drink and food sales. Now it may only be drink sales because I think they have someone else doing the kitchen.
Rumor has it that on the weekends (before the economic disaster) this bar was doing around $10,000 from band nights.
I have several ways of looking at this problem.
1. I receive the same money whether there are 25 people or 250. I never get offered any EXTRA money on a really good night.
2. This karaoke night was up to 60-80 people and headed for even bigger numbers before they implimented the bike night. After the first bike night the crowds started to fall off. It went down to less than 50, to it's present 25-35. The bike night has been going for 2 years (summers) now.
3. I warned her not to do the bike night from previous experiences I have seen at other bars. Crowds fell off.
4. The good girl bartender rides a Harley and it was her idea to do bike night. She told me that they really tip well. So that is her motivation to do it. Regardless of the bad effect it has had on all the other nights. Crowds dropped off on the band nights also. The bartender killed everything else to put a few extra dollars in her pocket one night a month. She has also hurt herself and the rest of us by having bike night.
5. I am worth more than I get now. My price has been kept down because of all the crappy KJ undercutters in the area.
6. I will not be able to convince the bar owner that the bike night was a very bad business decision and the ultimate reason for her lack of business. Because the bike night actually drew a big crowd. However the bar had a band playing inside. All of the bikers stayed outside and only came in to get their drinks. So they were not there for the entertainment.
7. They just hired a new bartender. She's not even 21 yet. But she worked at Hooter before. She stands around looking pretty while the Harley rider does all the work. The bar owner can't find anyone else to work and they are frustrated from looking so they are keeping the Hooters girl. The Harley rider isn't happy about tip sharing with her. So they will probably keep doing the bike night to keep the Harley rider around to make their life easier and to keep the bartenders they now have. They told the Harley rider to straighten out the Hooters girl. THIS IS NOT HER JOB, it's The BAROWNERS JOB. This is another indication to me that something goofy is going on.
8. The karaoke singers are still coming out faithfully. They may be spending a little less money now.
9. If the bar owner insists on doing the bike night again this summer it may not be worth me sticking around anyway. Her business decision is starting to make me look bad.
10. After thinking about it more....I don't want to work there if they continue to do bike night this year. It is starting to effect my reputation by killing my crowd along with the other nights.
11. Another thought...my Sunday job is only 4 miles away and he would probably jump on a ready made Tuesday night crowd to get those people at his bar.
12. There is no doubt that the economy is in the gutter and people may not have money to spend like they did last year.
13. The bottom line is this....you can not be a nice neighborhood bar and entertain bikers too. Something will happen to the crowd that you may not like. The crowd killing here was not my fault or solely that of the economy slowing down. The crowd killing here started 2 years ago when the economy was good. Nothing I have done has changed. My show is still the same quality. This was a bad business decision on the bar owners part. I should not have to pay the price for her stupidity after I practically begged her not to do it. I told her many horror stories about bike nights killing other bars. She had one thing on her mind. It was "I can make some money on another night" without taking into account the awful repercussions of the biker reputation and how it would effect the rest of her business in a negative way. She may also have been thinking about keeping the Harley rider as a bartender.
14. Regardless of her actual reasons for doing it...The proof is in the cash register... or should I say NOT IN THE CASH REGISTER. No money in the cash register means that something they did has caused a lack of income. The only thing that changed in the last 2 years is the bike night. If I were to put my money on why the business is dying my guess is 99.9% it has totally everything to do with bike night and the economy has .01% of the blame. BUT THE BLAME DOES NOT FALL ON ME OR MY SHOW. I may be switching venues again because of another stupid bar owner wanting to cater to bikers.
15. I should add that I have been at this bar 14 1/2 years.
16. BAR OWNERS....UNLESS YOU RUN A BIKER BAR>>>>DO NOT HAVE A BIKE NIGHT>>>PERIOD.
I heard from reliable sources that the Friday band drew 50 people and the Saturday night band wasn't much better.
The bands play for whatever money is collected at the door. (no cost to the bar unless the band wants a guaranteed payoff. In which case the bar would pony up the missing difference.) I play for a set fee that comes directly out of the bars nightly profit. From drink and food sales. Now it may only be drink sales because I think they have someone else doing the kitchen.
Rumor has it that on the weekends (before the economic disaster) this bar was doing around $10,000 from band nights.
I have several ways of looking at this problem.
1. I receive the same money whether there are 25 people or 250. I never get offered any EXTRA money on a really good night.
2. This karaoke night was up to 60-80 people and headed for even bigger numbers before they implimented the bike night. After the first bike night the crowds started to fall off. It went down to less than 50, to it's present 25-35. The bike night has been going for 2 years (summers) now.
3. I warned her not to do the bike night from previous experiences I have seen at other bars. Crowds fell off.
4. The good girl bartender rides a Harley and it was her idea to do bike night. She told me that they really tip well. So that is her motivation to do it. Regardless of the bad effect it has had on all the other nights. Crowds dropped off on the band nights also. The bartender killed everything else to put a few extra dollars in her pocket one night a month. She has also hurt herself and the rest of us by having bike night.
5. I am worth more than I get now. My price has been kept down because of all the crappy KJ undercutters in the area.
6. I will not be able to convince the bar owner that the bike night was a very bad business decision and the ultimate reason for her lack of business. Because the bike night actually drew a big crowd. However the bar had a band playing inside. All of the bikers stayed outside and only came in to get their drinks. So they were not there for the entertainment.
7. They just hired a new bartender. She's not even 21 yet. But she worked at Hooter before. She stands around looking pretty while the Harley rider does all the work. The bar owner can't find anyone else to work and they are frustrated from looking so they are keeping the Hooters girl. The Harley rider isn't happy about tip sharing with her. So they will probably keep doing the bike night to keep the Harley rider around to make their life easier and to keep the bartenders they now have. They told the Harley rider to straighten out the Hooters girl. THIS IS NOT HER JOB, it's The BAROWNERS JOB. This is another indication to me that something goofy is going on.
8. The karaoke singers are still coming out faithfully. They may be spending a little less money now.
9. If the bar owner insists on doing the bike night again this summer it may not be worth me sticking around anyway. Her business decision is starting to make me look bad.
10. After thinking about it more....I don't want to work there if they continue to do bike night this year. It is starting to effect my reputation by killing my crowd along with the other nights.
11. Another thought...my Sunday job is only 4 miles away and he would probably jump on a ready made Tuesday night crowd to get those people at his bar.
12. There is no doubt that the economy is in the gutter and people may not have money to spend like they did last year.
13. The bottom line is this....you can not be a nice neighborhood bar and entertain bikers too. Something will happen to the crowd that you may not like. The crowd killing here was not my fault or solely that of the economy slowing down. The crowd killing here started 2 years ago when the economy was good. Nothing I have done has changed. My show is still the same quality. This was a bad business decision on the bar owners part. I should not have to pay the price for her stupidity after I practically begged her not to do it. I told her many horror stories about bike nights killing other bars. She had one thing on her mind. It was "I can make some money on another night" without taking into account the awful repercussions of the biker reputation and how it would effect the rest of her business in a negative way. She may also have been thinking about keeping the Harley rider as a bartender.
14. Regardless of her actual reasons for doing it...The proof is in the cash register... or should I say NOT IN THE CASH REGISTER. No money in the cash register means that something they did has caused a lack of income. The only thing that changed in the last 2 years is the bike night. If I were to put my money on why the business is dying my guess is 99.9% it has totally everything to do with bike night and the economy has .01% of the blame. BUT THE BLAME DOES NOT FALL ON ME OR MY SHOW. I may be switching venues again because of another stupid bar owner wanting to cater to bikers.
15. I should add that I have been at this bar 14 1/2 years.
16. BAR OWNERS....UNLESS YOU RUN A BIKER BAR>>>>DO NOT HAVE A BIKE NIGHT>>>PERIOD.
I actually haven't seen too much of a decrease in crowd size, the bigger problem I'm having right now is venues that are having financial problems and as a result cancelling gigs. I've got an upcoming event gig that is on the rocks because the club just went into receivership and the incoming trustee is cutting all bands in the club and isn't sure what to do about this upcoming event with Karaoke.
Our band has seen the same. They were cut as part of that same venue and got news this week of two other gigs that pulled the plug because of financial issues. This is coming at a time when the band itself is actually drawing increasingly larger crowds.
It's gonna be a rough haul for a while but I'm pretty optimistic that things will improve. The biggest key right now for me is continuing to show my clients that I bring enough money into the bar to more than pay for my services. As long as I can continue to do that, it's a no brainer for them. However it's all about perception, so I have to make sure that they understand how much of their business is actually a result of my presence.
Our band has seen the same. They were cut as part of that same venue and got news this week of two other gigs that pulled the plug because of financial issues. This is coming at a time when the band itself is actually drawing increasingly larger crowds.
It's gonna be a rough haul for a while but I'm pretty optimistic that things will improve. The biggest key right now for me is continuing to show my clients that I bring enough money into the bar to more than pay for my services. As long as I can continue to do that, it's a no brainer for them. However it's all about perception, so I have to make sure that they understand how much of their business is actually a result of my presence.
Tuesdays decline is blamed mostly on the biker night for the last 2 years.
My Wednesday decline I blame mostly on the economy. But the bartenders tonight held up karaoke again because of the HOCKEY game. They both love hockey. So the karaoke singers that did show up early had to wait almost 1 hour. I still got paid full money so I don't care. Except that it could be hurting my reputation and that of the bar because of it. The karaoke singers will first check the hockey schedule and then decide if they want to take a chance. There were not many hockey fans there tonight. Now did the karaoke keep the hockey fans away or did the hockey keep the singers away?
In this economy there is too much at stake to lose by being stupid. There are many bars in the area offering karaoke every night of the week and giving the singers a good reason not to come out isn't needed.
The wednesday bartenders have not asked me to take less money yet but I know they are taking a pounding in the tip area. But they can blame hockey for some of that.
Thursdays karaoke is the only thing keeping this bar open. So she is going to start yaking about money if the crowds are thin. Most of the nights have been decent.
I am starting a list of pros and cons for each job.
Example.
1. How easy is it to get the equipment in and set up? 1-10
2. Are they allowing smoking? 1-10
3. Do I like the crowd and do I feel safe? 1-10
4. Do they have security personal? 1-10
5. Can the bartender/s keep up with the crowd? Any complaints? 1-10
6. How far do I have to drive? 1-10
7. Does the owner/staff give me any SH****T? 1-10
8. Do they have anything going on that could hurt the size of my crowds? I.E. BIKE NIGHTS, POOL TABLES, SLOW BARTENDERS, HOLD UP KARAOKE FOR SPORTING EVENTS ON TV, DART LEAGUES ON MY NIGHT 1-10
9. Do they expect me to give price breaks on slow nights? Like it's my fault.
There may be some more. There will be bars that have high scores and bars that have low scores. But this is how I'm going to base my decisions about where I will stay/play from now on.
My Wednesday decline I blame mostly on the economy. But the bartenders tonight held up karaoke again because of the HOCKEY game. They both love hockey. So the karaoke singers that did show up early had to wait almost 1 hour. I still got paid full money so I don't care. Except that it could be hurting my reputation and that of the bar because of it. The karaoke singers will first check the hockey schedule and then decide if they want to take a chance. There were not many hockey fans there tonight. Now did the karaoke keep the hockey fans away or did the hockey keep the singers away?
In this economy there is too much at stake to lose by being stupid. There are many bars in the area offering karaoke every night of the week and giving the singers a good reason not to come out isn't needed.
The wednesday bartenders have not asked me to take less money yet but I know they are taking a pounding in the tip area. But they can blame hockey for some of that.
Thursdays karaoke is the only thing keeping this bar open. So she is going to start yaking about money if the crowds are thin. Most of the nights have been decent.
I am starting a list of pros and cons for each job.
Example.
1. How easy is it to get the equipment in and set up? 1-10
2. Are they allowing smoking? 1-10
3. Do I like the crowd and do I feel safe? 1-10
4. Do they have security personal? 1-10
5. Can the bartender/s keep up with the crowd? Any complaints? 1-10
6. How far do I have to drive? 1-10
7. Does the owner/staff give me any SH****T? 1-10
8. Do they have anything going on that could hurt the size of my crowds? I.E. BIKE NIGHTS, POOL TABLES, SLOW BARTENDERS, HOLD UP KARAOKE FOR SPORTING EVENTS ON TV, DART LEAGUES ON MY NIGHT 1-10
9. Do they expect me to give price breaks on slow nights? Like it's my fault.
There may be some more. There will be bars that have high scores and bars that have low scores. But this is how I'm going to base my decisions about where I will stay/play from now on.
I don't really have a formal list like Bigdogs, however everything on his list and more is what I call the bullsh!t factor. Basically, when the level of BS outweighs the money I'm going to get/getting at a gig, it's time for me to turn it down the gig or move on to a different gig.
The level of BS we're each willing to put up with is going to be different. As I think most of you are aware, this is not my primary source of income so I can afford to be more selective. Right now, I'm down to only one weekly gig because I walked out on two others after the BS factor got to be too much. One of the two would cancel me at the last minute, was 45 minutes away, had limited parking all right in front of the door so if it was packed I had to load in from across the highway (not fun), and the owner liked to manipulate the rotation. The money was good but not good enough to deal with that much garbage so I dropped the gig. The other one I dropped wasn't too far away and the owner was great. However, some of the clientele was shady, there really wasn't enough room in the bar for a Karaoke rig, even when I stripped mine down, the load in required scaling 8 steps on each trip (when your rack weighs 160lbs, that's a pain in the butt), and the money just wasn't enough to make it worth while.
The level of BS we're each willing to put up with is going to be different. As I think most of you are aware, this is not my primary source of income so I can afford to be more selective. Right now, I'm down to only one weekly gig because I walked out on two others after the BS factor got to be too much. One of the two would cancel me at the last minute, was 45 minutes away, had limited parking all right in front of the door so if it was packed I had to load in from across the highway (not fun), and the owner liked to manipulate the rotation. The money was good but not good enough to deal with that much garbage so I dropped the gig. The other one I dropped wasn't too far away and the owner was great. However, some of the clientele was shady, there really wasn't enough room in the bar for a Karaoke rig, even when I stripped mine down, the load in required scaling 8 steps on each trip (when your rack weighs 160lbs, that's a pain in the butt), and the money just wasn't enough to make it worth while.
Bigdog, I hate to say it but you seem to have a deep prejudice towards folks that ride bikes. First of all, if it weren't for bikers there weoul be a lot LESS business at the places I frequent. The singing clientele around here has dwindled because of the bars to insist on doing both dj and karaoke on the same night. IMO it just perturbs both types of crowd, but they want to please everyone. Definitely a subject for a different thread. As for the topic at hand, we have a very respectable clientele who ride bikes down here in the south and we would never think of excluding them or not having a night to bring them in. Not being rude just offering my point of view. As for the Hooter's chick, hey if she is bringing in business, by all means let her.
RebelYell Enterprises - "Don't find yourself to be a 'rebel without a song' "
My first vehicle was a motorcycle. That was in 1972. Been riding since.
I have witnessed bike night kill several bars that I have played in.
I have witnessed members of rival biker gang members in bars, not on biker night. That scared everyone away.
We have hard core biker bars in the area. The "normal" people don't go there. My karaoke nights attract normal people and the bikers scare the regular people away even on the nights that aren't bike night.
Bar owner makes a bad business decision and starts having a bike night. It's killing the entire business on every night of the week and I should take a cut in pay because of it? I DON"T THINK SO. I'll quit first. Because one more summer of bike nights and the bar won't be in business anymore anyway. Besides it's making me look like I can't draw a crowd. I worked my A$$ off trying to rebuild her crowd and she decides to kill all my hard work WRONG.
If you want a biker bar then that's what you need to cater to. But you can not have a family type bar with a normal crowd and bikers too.
The sad part is she had only one biker night each month during the last 2 summers. So with 12 bike nights she has all but killed her entire business. I don't happen to think it was worth it. If she does it this summer the bar will be gone. Seen happen before.
I have witnessed bike night kill several bars that I have played in.
I have witnessed members of rival biker gang members in bars, not on biker night. That scared everyone away.
We have hard core biker bars in the area. The "normal" people don't go there. My karaoke nights attract normal people and the bikers scare the regular people away even on the nights that aren't bike night.
Bar owner makes a bad business decision and starts having a bike night. It's killing the entire business on every night of the week and I should take a cut in pay because of it? I DON"T THINK SO. I'll quit first. Because one more summer of bike nights and the bar won't be in business anymore anyway. Besides it's making me look like I can't draw a crowd. I worked my A$$ off trying to rebuild her crowd and she decides to kill all my hard work WRONG.
If you want a biker bar then that's what you need to cater to. But you can not have a family type bar with a normal crowd and bikers too.
The sad part is she had only one biker night each month during the last 2 summers. So with 12 bike nights she has all but killed her entire business. I don't happen to think it was worth it. If she does it this summer the bar will be gone. Seen happen before.
k my thoughts...
I'm going through something kinda the same. this new bar manager and big ideas about cancelling karaoke periodically to bring bands in... not good ones but local bands, up the road 15 minutes another bar is bringing in bands with names people recognize. Prism, Julian austin and The trailer park boys.
would you go see some nobody's, when you can see a band from your past or someone you heard on the radio?
so no turn out for the bands, and then to top it off, chasing away your karaoke customers while they are at it, because now you've become inconsistent, by no fault of your own. There is another place they can go that runs it faithfully and never misses a night.
last saturday, last night (thursday) and again tonight (friday) have been very slow. 14 - 26 singers nightly. 30 to 60 people in the bar.
If the bar asked me to take a pay cut, I would simply take some time off from working there and watch their profits yet again take a plunge. They forget the money you bring into the bar as their entertainment. NO HOUSE BAND is going to keep bringing people in for years and years. There isn't a WAITRESS alive that customers line up at the door to see every night. it certainly isn't the ATMOSPHERE that brings them back either. It's you plain and simple, have confidence in yourself and the job that you do!
The past 2 bars that i have walked out of, have taken a dive to the point of almost closing their doors. and begging me to come back.
WALK and wait for the peices to fall where they may. it would only take a few weeks before they asked you to come back. take 2 weeks off and give your customers notice of it for a couple of weeks ahead of time. the bars clients will vanish along with you and only return when you do.
I'm going through something kinda the same. this new bar manager and big ideas about cancelling karaoke periodically to bring bands in... not good ones but local bands, up the road 15 minutes another bar is bringing in bands with names people recognize. Prism, Julian austin and The trailer park boys.
would you go see some nobody's, when you can see a band from your past or someone you heard on the radio?
so no turn out for the bands, and then to top it off, chasing away your karaoke customers while they are at it, because now you've become inconsistent, by no fault of your own. There is another place they can go that runs it faithfully and never misses a night.
last saturday, last night (thursday) and again tonight (friday) have been very slow. 14 - 26 singers nightly. 30 to 60 people in the bar.
If the bar asked me to take a pay cut, I would simply take some time off from working there and watch their profits yet again take a plunge. They forget the money you bring into the bar as their entertainment. NO HOUSE BAND is going to keep bringing people in for years and years. There isn't a WAITRESS alive that customers line up at the door to see every night. it certainly isn't the ATMOSPHERE that brings them back either. It's you plain and simple, have confidence in yourself and the job that you do!
The past 2 bars that i have walked out of, have taken a dive to the point of almost closing their doors. and begging me to come back.
WALK and wait for the peices to fall where they may. it would only take a few weeks before they asked you to come back. take 2 weeks off and give your customers notice of it for a couple of weeks ahead of time. the bars clients will vanish along with you and only return when you do.
Many club owners do have a bad habit of blaming the entertainment when crowds are small and not giving proper credit to the entertainment when the crowds show up. It happened recently with my band when they played a local bar. They had played their previously and had a very small crowd due in no small part to the fact that the bar owner did nothing to advertise the show at all. So of course the bar owner blamed us and wasn't happy that we didn't bring in a bigger draw.
So when we returned, knowing that the bar owner makes little effort to promote the band shows, we launched a huge marketing blitz in the area to advertise the show. As a result, we had a huge night, great crowd, partied all night long and by the bar owner's own admission they made out great. Many of those in the crowds were regulars that we see at many of our gigs. But of course the first thing the bar owner says after the show "boy we sure brought a good crowd in for you guys tonight" as if she was somehow responsible for the large numbers.
It's just part of the scene you have to be aware of, accept and just deal with. You have to work closely with your clients to make sure they understand what your business means to them in terms of profits without being pompous or over-estimating your own worth to them.
So when we returned, knowing that the bar owner makes little effort to promote the band shows, we launched a huge marketing blitz in the area to advertise the show. As a result, we had a huge night, great crowd, partied all night long and by the bar owner's own admission they made out great. Many of those in the crowds were regulars that we see at many of our gigs. But of course the first thing the bar owner says after the show "boy we sure brought a good crowd in for you guys tonight" as if she was somehow responsible for the large numbers.
It's just part of the scene you have to be aware of, accept and just deal with. You have to work closely with your clients to make sure they understand what your business means to them in terms of profits without being pompous or over-estimating your own worth to them.
Now you have just created a monster.
Since she actually did nothing to promote the night, she will think that she doesn't have to do anything ever again and she will make money. This is typical of all bar owners.
They sure can do enough stupid things to kill their business but they never do one good thing to build it.
I have never been offered one penny over my price on a really kick a$$ night. But they are quick to talk about a price break.
This last Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday were really above average nights. See ya next week was about the most that I heard from any owner.
Since she actually did nothing to promote the night, she will think that she doesn't have to do anything ever again and she will make money. This is typical of all bar owners.
They sure can do enough stupid things to kill their business but they never do one good thing to build it.
I have never been offered one penny over my price on a really kick a$$ night. But they are quick to talk about a price break.
This last Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday were really above average nights. See ya next week was about the most that I heard from any owner.
