Should I even consider going back to a show that I used to do

[DanG2006]

Ok, right now I have been doing a show for about three years at a Social center that I am a member of. I have been doing it for free because I am getting more than monetary satisfaction out of doing it. I previously ran a monthly show at the other social center but charged them because they didn't give me the warm feeling that I have with the one that I am doing now. That said, the one I am doing now is going to be history as of October 1st due to the state not renewing their grant, which I feel is unjustified based on the reason that they are giving for not renewing it. Even if it was the truth, which it isn't, if I were the one making the decision, I would have weighed the factor that the other center had other financial aid and would have still been around if their grant had been pulled out from under them. That said, the only way that some of the singers that I serve can continue to sing is I go in with my tail tucked under my legs and agree to run a monthly show for them. I right now am not willing to do it there for zero pay. In fact I plan on requiring that I get paid before I set up $100 for a 2 hour show, cash only. I refuse to take a check because of the last experience with them. They took a whole month to pay me for a show and I got that on the day that I was scheduled to be doing another show. The thing is even after I told them that they needed to bring themselves up to date including the payment of that next show or I would not set up. They didn't keep their end of the bargain so I left with the previous months check and cancelled that night's show and haven't done one since.

[mr.dj]

It sounds to me that you are being taken advantage off. Even though you say you get more than monetory satisfaction from doing it. I can understand an occasional charity event for a worthy cause but for three years I think that's taking the pxx.
The cost of supplying the music, equipment & transport means your actually subsidising the event.
As far as the other show goes, if I was treated the way you descibe i would not consider returning unless it was under completly new management.
When you get people like yourself doing it for free or rock bottom prices it contributes to the overall rate for karaoke hosts being demolished.

[The Lone Ranger]

Ok, right now I have been doing a show for about three years at a Social center that I am a member of. I have been doing it for free because I am getting more than monetary satisfaction out of doing it. I previously ran a monthly show at the other social center but charged them because they didn't give me the warm feeling that I have with the one that I am doing now. That said, the one I am doing now is going to be history as of October 1st due to the state not renewing their grant, which I feel is unjustified based on the reason that they are giving for not renewing it. Even if it was the truth, which it isn't, if I were the one making the decision, I would have weighed the factor that the other center had other financial aid and would have still been around if their grant had been pulled out from under them. That said, the only way that some of the singers that I serve can continue to sing is I go in with my tail tucked under my legs and agree to run a monthly show for them. I right now am not willing to do it there for zero pay. In fact I plan on requiring that I get paid before I set up $100 for a 2 hour show, cash only. I refuse to take a check because of the last experience with them. They took a whole month to pay me for a show and I got that on the day that I was scheduled to be doing another show. The thing is even after I told them that they needed to bring themselves up to date including the payment of that next show or I would not set up. They didn't keep their end of the bargain so I left with the previous months check and cancelled that night's show and haven't done one since.

Danny you are a professional and deserve to get paid for your work, unless you feel like donating your time to the center in order to service your patrons. I would not work for anyone that was supposed to pay me and failed to deliver on their promises. Of course that is just me, maybe you could get some kind of credit for a charitable contribution, if you feel this is sort of civic program that helps the overall community. Not too many civic minded people these days, that sort of fell out of favor during the 60's and 70's. That sort of for the good of the nation attitude has died sadly with the WWII generation.

[DanG2006]

Part of the difference between the two centers is that I had knowledge of how much money they received from the state and how they have efficiently managed that money without asking for the members to pay anything and the total respect of the member's rights. The other center thinks nothing about investigating whether or not one member's complaint of another that the complaining member has a beef with is true before suspending the membership rights of the one being complained about. I will gladly help out any place that treats their people with disabilities as personsoon who deserve respect than a place that ignores the civil rights of the people that they serve. The place that is closing has been serving breakfast or lunch at no cost to the members while the other charges $2 for a meal at lunch time but won't feed anyone who doesn't have the money to pay for the lunch. Plus you have to clean up after eating on top of paying for lunch.

[DanG2006]

Another thing to consider is that both of these places are non profit agencies. I am not there to generate money for them but to provide the means of entertainment and assisting with the recovery process of this particular community.
And it helps with my own recovery. I intensely enjoy helping others like me to come out of their shells. When I am not hosting shows or singing at a friend's show, I am the person who is hiding in the corner not wanting to step into the limelight but give me a mic and a song to sing and I am a totally different person. I become outgoing, wanting to be part of the fun. I have never been that way at say a DJ night, which is why I try to avoid night clubs that only have DJ music. I like to term myself as better me being the DJ instead of the dancer. I feel about dancing the way some people feel about singing in public. I literally don't dance as the Lee Brice song goes unless it's slow dancing with the love of my life. Then I don't feel as stupid.

[The Lone Ranger]

Another thing to consider is that both of these places are non profit agencies. I am not there to generate money for them but to provide the means of entertainment and assisting with the recovery process of this particular community.
And it helps with my own recovery. I intensely enjoy helping others like me to come out of their shells. When I am not hosting shows or singing at a friend's show, I am the person who is hiding in the corner not wanting to step into the limelight but give me a mic and a song to sing and I am a totally different person. I become outgoing, wanting to be part of the fun. I have never been that way at say a DJ night, which is why I try to avoid night clubs that only have DJ music. I like to term myself as better me being the DJ instead of the dancer. I feel about dancing the way some people feel about singing in public. I literally don't dance as the Lee Brice song goes unless it's slow dancing with the love of my life. Then I don't feel as stupid.

There has been many times I have donated my services to non profit organizations at no cost, because I thought it was the right thing to do. Being a Veteran I especially support non profit organizations like The American Legion and the VFW of which I'm a proud member of both. I used karaoke as therapy to help my own wife you suffers from bi-polar disorder with manic tendencies. It has helped her quite a bit to keep a foot in the real world. You have to ask yourself Dan if the job is worth doing without pay as a public service? It would also seem that hosting has some therapeutic value for yourself. Maybe you are not getting paid in dollars that is true, but personally it is doing you some good. Isn't better to donate your time for free than having to pay a shrink $50.00 an hour out of your pocket for a session?

[Paradigm Karaoke]

i have donated many times to non profit organizations (VFW, Eagles, etc) but the fact that you mentioned...
"The place that is closing has been serving breakfast or lunch at no cost to the members" that means they lost money every meal. even the VFW can't do that.
"while the other charges $2 for a meal at lunch time but won't feed anyone who doesn't have the money to pay for the lunch."
that doesn't even cover the cost for the lunch.
i know the VFW has to sell 15 dinners at $6 each to break even and not loose money. you just may be dealing with organizations that are not being run properly. nothing you did wrong by any stretch and i give you props for sticking in there 3 years, but it sounds like they are just losing.

[mr.dj]

I now also understand your situation as my wife has suffered for many years with Schizoaffective Disorder so can understand where your coming from. I see the benefit to you is in helping others.

Enjoy what you do.

[DanG2006]

I have decided that the last show at the center that is closing is going to be the last time I provide my services to that particular group of people unless it's for a special occasion and I am still going to insist on getting paid cash in advance.
I start a new gig at an American Legion post on Friday night and will be doing it on Friday and Saturday nights. It's a paid gig , not quite my regular rate but better than most regular bars here pay. They pretty much laugh at anything higher than $75, which is half my bar rate. This new gig is paying $100 a night.

[The Lone Ranger]

I have decided that the last show at the center that is closing is going to be the last time I provide my services to that particular group of people unless it's for a special occasion and I am still going to insist on getting paid cash in advance.
I start a new gig at an American Legion post on Friday night and will be doing it on Friday and Saturday nights. It's a paid gig , not quite my regular rate but better than most regular bars here pay. They pretty much laugh at anything higher than $75, which is half my bar rate. This new gig is paying $100 a night.

You will like working at the Legion post better than any bar. Most of the people will be members or guests and they are expected to behave themselves like adults, which doesn't happen in many public bars. Any American Legion post can suspend members entrance to a post for up to six months to a life suspension if they don't conduct themselves properly. If you work out you might want to look into joining the men's aux if you can, that way you can sign in your following if you have some patrons who want to attend your show. Even though you are working for less sometimes tips can make up the difference, so leave your tip jar out. They understand you are doing a service for them at a reduced rate. Sometimes at the ELKS, VFW, Legion, my tips totaled 50.00 to 100.00 themselves. Not always but sometimes.

[DanG2006]

I have decided that the last show at the center that is closing is going to be the last time I provide my services to that particular group of people unless it's for a special occasion and I am still going to insist on getting paid cash in advance.
I start a new gig at an American Legion post on Friday night and will be doing it on Friday and Saturday nights. It's a paid gig , not quite my regular rate but better than most regular bars here pay. They pretty much laugh at anything higher than $75, which is half my bar rate. This new gig is paying $100 a night.

You will like working at the Legion post better than any bar. Most of the people will be members or guests and they are expected to behave themselves like adults, which doesn't happen in many public bars. Any American Legion post can suspend members entrance to a post for up to six months to a life suspension if they don't conduct themselves properly. If you work out you might want to look into joining the men's aux if you can, that way you can sign in your following if you have some patrons who want to attend your show. Even though you are working for less sometimes tips can make up the difference, so leave your tip jar out. They understand you are doing a service for them at a reduced rate. Sometimes at the ELKS, VFW, Legion, my tips totaled 50.00 to 100.00 themselves. Not always but sometimes.

Lone, here's the rub, I personally think that a tip jar looks tacky and desperate, plus if I accept a tip and the person who gave it to me.gets up next it looks like I took a bribe. Granted that actually can't look that way if the other singers are paying attention to the screen because I display the rotation on the screen.

[The Lone Ranger]

Lone, here's the rub, I personally think that a tip jar looks tacky and desperate, plus if I accept a tip and the person who gave it to me.gets up next it looks like I took a bribe. Granted that actually can't look that way if the other singers are paying attention to the screen because I display the rotation on the screen.

That's one way of looking at it Dan. Did you ever consider that bartender's, waiters, the guy that washes your car, or the girl that cuts your hair get tips and that some people even live off their tips. You are providing a service, just like they are, you want positive feedback, what better way to get it than a full tip jar. I'm not saying put it out at a gig or party where they are paying you top dollar. When you are working for non-profits that is a totally different matter since you are already working usually at a fee lower than your normal one. It is not a bribe unless you are really putting people ahead on the list because they tipped you. You ran a strict rotation operation just like I did, there is no way any one could get ahead, at least at my show because I had a huge board with all names listed and everyone knew their place in line. One thing my show had a reputation for is not inserting anyone, period. What is tacky is if you are going around with the jar and putting it in someone's face. My tip jar didn't even say tips, but was really a large Green Irish Hat like one of the wee people would wear, what is really tacky is when you have patrons trying to reach into your hat to get drinking money. Just deposits no withdraws please.

[wiseguy]

You will like working at the Legion post better than any bar. Most of the people will be members or guests and they are expected to behave themselves like adults, which doesn't happen in many public bars. Any American Legion post can suspend members entrance to a post for up to six months to a life suspension if they don't conduct themselves properly. If you work out you might want to look into joining the men's aux if you can, that way you can sign in your following if you have some patrons who want to attend your show. Even though you are working for less sometimes tips can make up the difference, so leave your tip jar out. They understand you are doing a service for them at a reduced rate. Sometimes at the ELKS, VFW, Legion, my tips totaled 50.00 to 100.00 themselves. Not always but sometimes.

That completely depends on the type of crowd you like. I would personally rather play a biker bar than an American Legion or VFW. The last time I played an American Legion there was a big crowd of members and guests. One of the higher ups of that location didn't like some of the songs the younger singers were requesting and came over to tell me what songs I could allow and who I could allow to sing them. I, of course, told him to get lost at which point he threw a fit and went and gathered up some of the other leaders who advised me to listen to him. I told them that if they let people in they are going to be allowed to sing and to sing whatever they want and that the grumpy old man should be asked to accept that or leave. "Oh no, we can't do that, He's a long time member.". They lost a big crowd that night. This is not an isolated incident. I've run into similar problems at other Legions and VFWs. They allow the public in and then insist you give the members special treatment. Not on my watch.

[The Lone Ranger]

Never had that problem but then again my rule of thumb is I never play any songs that my mother would have objected to. If that makes me a Grumpy old man so be it. I stick to Golden Oldies and don't do any gangster rap etc.etc.etc., you have to play to the crowd wiseguy and my target market "Baby Boomers" have their limits. If you want to work at certain venues you have to know your limits.

[wiseguy]

Never had that problem but then again my rule of thumb is I never play any songs that my mother would have objected to. If that makes me a Grumpy old man so be it. I stick to Golden Oldies and don't do any gangster rap etc.etc.etc., you have to play to the crowd wiseguy and my target market "Baby Boomers" have their limits. If you want to work at certain venues you have to know your limits.

These were top 40 pop and rock songs. If I remember correctly the song that set the guy off was a Kiss song. I play what the people ask for. If all I had were "golden oldies" the only places I could play would be American Legions and VFWs. Plus I'd be bored out of my mind. And BTW, I am a baby boomer.