Computer based karaoke companies under fire.

[letitrip]

While I never doubted that SC or Stellar would send out such a letter, I am very doubtful that they can successfully prosecute someone for loading the song tracks, from legally obtained karaoke discs, onto a single hard drive. Only when they can achieve this will the karaoke community take them seriously. And that will be the start of their downfall.

Well the problem is they don't have to successfully prosecute anything. All they have to do is scare the bar/club owners who: 1. don't understand all the licensing details the way you and I do 2. aren't interested in getting into the fight over ideals the way you and I are. Their goal in this is to scare the bar/club owners such that the only way they know they're safe is by hiring a KJ that uses, as the letter states, all original CD's only. Even for folks who use legally purchased and downloaded MP3+G's it will be tough to justify to a bar/club owner why our systems are legal and safe from Sound Choice.

Sound Choice is actually acting in desperation here. This is a well planned move on their part in that not only does this strategy protect their claims that copyrights apply in this fashion, it also makes an attempt to disuade KJ's from using manufacturer provided MP3+G formats by scaring bar/club owners away from hiring KJ's that use them.

Sound Choice has however been foolish in that I believe they have over-estimated their ability to drive the market. They've basically setup a battle between themselves and the very people that keep them in business. Unlike the RIAA, who has a monopoly over the music industry by virtue of their organization, SC themselves have no such control. And other companies (Chartbuster, Zoom, Panorama and others) have already subverted many of their efforts by offering MP3+G formats of their products.

[wiseguy]

Well the problem is they don't have to successfully prosecute anything. All they have to do is scare the bar/club owners who: 1. don't understand all the licensing details the way you and I do 2. aren't interested in getting into the fight over ideals the way you and I are. Their goal in this is to scare the bar/club owners such that the only way they know they're safe is by hiring a KJ that uses, as the letter states, all original CD's only.

These "scare tactics" may have an initial effect, but how long will they work unless there are actual prosecutions taking place? I don't think that bar owners are going to continue to turn away entertainment that makes them a lot of money just because of these threats. I know quite a few bar owners in my area who would throw these letters in the trash along with the rest of their junk mail. Being a former bar owner, I know I would.

[LoneWolf]

DJTony, I was not aware that chartbuster was available in computer format. Are they comparable to price as the ones offered at tricerasoft? I have had some good results with tricerasoft so far and really believe that if SC and any others do not want to go the way of the betamax format of vcr's they will come around to what the buying public want. (Beta was arguably the much better of vcr formats.)

[letitrip]

I've always been really happy with Chartbuster's quality. I've got a number of their tracks both from CD and purchased online and they've always been really good (comparable to and sometimes better than Panorama - to give you some perspective). They are available through CAVS in limited selection (not all of their songs are out there).

[smoky]

I am a KJ in the Phoenix area. It is VERY hard to sort out rumor from fact. I do know that Cd based KJs, as you might expect, are pushing the Sound Shoice/Stellar invasion to the hilt. The CAVS based KJs are rationalizing in their efforts to use newer and more efficient technology that as long as they purchase one retail copy for one machine, that they are in the spirit of the law. And the law itself is very obtuse.

Yes, there have been articles in the local Phoenix media. In particular, a half page article in Fast Lane. Interestingly, the article in Fast Lane did not identify the KJ or the bar that supposedly was fined. I continue to wonder why the facts are so nebulous. How can anyone adhere to the law if everything is shrouded in mystery?

There is no doubt that piracy exists in blatant form. But there is also no doubt that honest and hard working KJs are trying to stay with modern technology and are trying to update in businesslike, legal ways.

It is also true that older KJs who have invested tens of thousands of dollars in retail CD based systems feel very threatened by the new technology and are quick to jump on the rumor bandwagon to condemn and intimidate KJs trying to stays on top of the technology curve. It is very difficult for a veteran KJ host who has thousands of CDGs and top of the line CDG playing equipment to think about reinvesting in the new technology when she or he already has what they need to perform a first rate show. Why have to compete with all these new people who can set up queues electronically and bring a song up from a library of thousands with a push of a button?

This is, of course, the ageless issue of modernization.

And why should recording companies stifle new technology and persecute those who stimulate the sale of karaoke? What a mess!

We end up feeding upon ourselves as KJs. I have lost several good friend and mentor KJs over this issue.

Why don't KJs have a national organization that can sort all this out and have power and sway with the KJ recording companies?

We are the lifeblood of karaoke. No one buys karaoke to sit at home and sing to themselves. It is the KJ host who provides the public venue that karaoke singers aspire to and helps them find new and interesting songs to sing and thus fuels the market to purchase Karaoke recordings. KJs should be cherished, not persecuted, by the recording industry.


Surely there is a way to stop the chaos and self incrimination and bring some kind of national organization to our craft?

Equipment manufacturers, recording companies, distributors, retailers, KJ hosts, singers, bars, and restaurants need to stop fighting for their own selfish interests, and find a way to band together as a trade industry and sort these issues out in a way where everyone wins. Karaoke will be killed if this infighting and chaos continues in the current direction.

Smoky

[superdave247]

whats the latest news on this topic? i'm interested in buying a CAVS system, but not if i will be put out of business by bar owners afraid of being sued. thanks for the update.

by the way, wouldn't sound choice be better off using the technology to their benefit instead of fighting it, by offering downloads from their website at a reasonable price per track?? it seems that this is the way the record companies are moving. just my 2 cents worth.

[DanG2006]

whats the latest news on this topic? i'm interested in buying a CAVS system, but not if i will be put out of business by bar owners afraid of being sued. thanks for the update.

by the way, wouldn't sound choice be better off using the technology to their benefit instead of fighting it, by offering downloads from their website at a reasonable price per track?? it seems that this is the way the record companies are moving. just my 2 cents worth.

Seems to have fizzled out after a trial run in arizona. I haven't heard hide or hair of it since then.

[superdave247]

okay, i guess i'll continue my search for a CAVS system. i hope it all just goes away...lol...

[DanG2006]

personally I find the cavs system lacking in the ability for filler music for one. I much prefer the laptop/pc route as it is more versitle. If it is the supercdg's you are worried about, RoxBox has a convetor for that. But I still believe that you are limiting yourself by going cavs. For one you still need a pc to import and print books with. Going PC at the get go would give you the best of all worlds. Think about this a Cavs JB199 is gonna cost you more than a PC or laptop to begin with and that includes the better software.

[letitrip]

Superdave, as an owner of some CAVS equipment, I'd like to personally caution you against their products. I've used both their hardware (203G player) and their software and find both to be very buggy and their support simply non-existent. I had a problem with my 203G player locking up and shipped it in for service. They had it for over 2 months and claimed they could not reproduce the issue (I even sent them my discs so they could try that). The day I got it back, I plugged it in and used it for 5 minutes only to have it lock up again. It's been sitting in the box ever since.

I'd recommend you look elsewhere. Their features are very promising and attractive, but their quality stinks.

[wiseguy]

Superdave, as an owner of some CAVS equipment, I'd like to personally caution you against their products. I've used both their hardware (203G player) and their software and find both to be very buggy and their support simply non-existent. I had a problem with my 203G player locking up and shipped it in for service. They had it for over 2 months and claimed they could not reproduce the issue (I even sent them my discs so they could try that). The day I got it back, I plugged it in and used it for 5 minutes only to have it lock up again. It's been sitting in the box ever since.

I'd recommend you look elsewhere. Their features are very promising and attractive, but their quality stinks.

I agree. In fact, one major retailer that I am associated with is dropping all CAVS products because even they cannot receive a response from CAVS support.

[LarryKaraoke]

I use CAVS at both my venues and have had NO problems. I much prefer the comp, buuuuut. This is what they have..lol

[Billy Bob Joe Bob 1958]

No letter here, but a bar where I put on a show just got a call from BMI saying they needed to discuss copyright law. The bar owner hasn't called back yet, but both he and I are a bit nervous right now, not sure what's going on.

So does anyone have any experience with any calls from BMI?

By the way, yes, I do run my show from a laptop hard drive. 12,000 songs (although many are dupes--we counted 19 versions of "My Way").

But it's built on hundreds of disks that I bought and then copied onto the drive. Plus, I tell my singers to send me an email of any song they like--and I'll get it. So I PAY to download about 10 new songs a week.

Oh, and it's all backed up both online AND on an external terabyte drive (along with decades of photos and my diaries and other writings--priceless stuff).

So has anyone else seen their venue getting a call from BMI? And what was the outcome?

[wiseguy]

BMI typically doesn't care where you got your music. They only want to make sure that someone is paying their dues for playing them. In most states bar are required to carry a "blanket coverage" license for the performance of live and recorded music. At any rate, it is the bar that is responsible for this and not the KJ.

Also, as long as you have the original discs, and/or receipts for all the songs on your hard drive, you should be fine.

[Billy Bob Joe Bob 1958]

Thanks! Thou art truly wise.

Yeah, we just got off the phone with BMI. Not too painful...

But next I guess we're gonna' be hearing from ASCAP?