Wiseguy
Can you follow-up with KaraokeStar regarding a direct response from SC and/or Stellar?
Better yet, can you contact SC and Stellar for the benefit of us all?
Computer based karaoke companies under fire.
Been there, done that. These companies will simply not respond to this type of question. To my way of thinking, If they don't deny it then it must be true. One only has to read this FAQ page at the KAPA to see what stance Sound Choice takes on this subject.wyndy wrote:Wiseguy
Can you follow-up with KaraokeStar regarding a direct response from SC and/or Stellar?
Better yet, can you contact SC and Stellar for the benefit of us all?
Wiseguy
I understand your thinking in this regard.
I have had a different opinion for quite some time now, and only a copy of the "cease and desist" letter with the name of the venue who received it will change my thinking.
Consider, first of all, that I have been suspect of the tone and slant of some of the postings that have appeared on various karaoke forums regarding this subject. I wonder if Stellar and/or SC are behind some of these postings (directly or indirectly) with the intent of stirring up turmoil. I am hard pressed to accept that the postings that I have found troublesome were all prepared by KJ's. I feel, for one, some of these postings had an agenda and one goal was to direct people to the "press release" on the Karaokestar website, and another was to pursuade folks that the "ax had fallen".
If you wonder what Stellar and SC might gain in perpetrating such a "hoax", just consider the enormous amount of apprehension many KJ's are now experiencing across the country regarding the wisdom of running computer based shows (especially those who use pirated material). KJ's with pirated material on HD's can't help but be concerned, if they are aware of the "press release" and the reaction it has generated among KJ's! And, obviously, when a "format shifted" HD is confiscated for evidence, any pirated material would be laid bare for legal scrutiny. While there has yet to be a test case on the legality of format shifting, the penalties for having a pirated HD could be severe!
If nothing else, can you imagine what's going in the minds of Phoenix KJ's these days who have heard about (but have never seen) "cease and desist" letters. Many of the Phoenix KJ's are reputed to run shows with pirated libraries!
The post on this thread from Phxkj (a Phoenix KJ) made me wonder about the following: If there are, as he says, at least 500 karaoke shows in Phoenix (many of which I've been told are computer run), surely someone could provide the name of a specific Phoenix venue that has received a "cease and desist" letter attributed to SC and/or Stellar? Many of us keep asking for a copy of said letter.
Considering that Phxkj is concerned about copyright matters, that he is in Phoenix, and he claims to do 40 shows a week, I must believe he has many connections in town. Why hasn't he come upon a copy of said letter? If I were in Phoenix, I'd be going out of my way to find out who has received the letter. In fact, I've been calling Phoenix venues that offer karaoke and have yet to find one that knows what I am talking about!
Lastly, I find it curious that a document that has had such a great impact on KJ's everywhere has yet to surface and that the first indication of its existence was (conveniently) provided by a lone karaoke retailer in Phoenix.
I understand your thinking in this regard.
I have had a different opinion for quite some time now, and only a copy of the "cease and desist" letter with the name of the venue who received it will change my thinking.
Consider, first of all, that I have been suspect of the tone and slant of some of the postings that have appeared on various karaoke forums regarding this subject. I wonder if Stellar and/or SC are behind some of these postings (directly or indirectly) with the intent of stirring up turmoil. I am hard pressed to accept that the postings that I have found troublesome were all prepared by KJ's. I feel, for one, some of these postings had an agenda and one goal was to direct people to the "press release" on the Karaokestar website, and another was to pursuade folks that the "ax had fallen".
If you wonder what Stellar and SC might gain in perpetrating such a "hoax", just consider the enormous amount of apprehension many KJ's are now experiencing across the country regarding the wisdom of running computer based shows (especially those who use pirated material). KJ's with pirated material on HD's can't help but be concerned, if they are aware of the "press release" and the reaction it has generated among KJ's! And, obviously, when a "format shifted" HD is confiscated for evidence, any pirated material would be laid bare for legal scrutiny. While there has yet to be a test case on the legality of format shifting, the penalties for having a pirated HD could be severe!
If nothing else, can you imagine what's going in the minds of Phoenix KJ's these days who have heard about (but have never seen) "cease and desist" letters. Many of the Phoenix KJ's are reputed to run shows with pirated libraries!
The post on this thread from Phxkj (a Phoenix KJ) made me wonder about the following: If there are, as he says, at least 500 karaoke shows in Phoenix (many of which I've been told are computer run), surely someone could provide the name of a specific Phoenix venue that has received a "cease and desist" letter attributed to SC and/or Stellar? Many of us keep asking for a copy of said letter.
Considering that Phxkj is concerned about copyright matters, that he is in Phoenix, and he claims to do 40 shows a week, I must believe he has many connections in town. Why hasn't he come upon a copy of said letter? If I were in Phoenix, I'd be going out of my way to find out who has received the letter. In fact, I've been calling Phoenix venues that offer karaoke and have yet to find one that knows what I am talking about!
Lastly, I find it curious that a document that has had such a great impact on KJ's everywhere has yet to surface and that the first indication of its existence was (conveniently) provided by a lone karaoke retailer in Phoenix.
so am I going to have to be the first one to request pxkj, that you post one of these 'letters' that so many of these bars have received? Surely one of them would love to put this matter to rest. So perhaps you could scan an actual letter with all the original trimmings attached, and post it , there would then be no doubt to the validity of what is being purported as truth. Thanks
"Come Sing with the Wolf!!"
Lone wolf, wyndy, I do know many people and have asked if I could have a copy of the cease and desist letter, I have seen it , but no one has been willing to actually give me one, I will get one somehow, As I've stated on another site. What I do know is that there have been an awfull lot of bars and kj's in this town that have removed SC and Stellar of of their hard drives. I believe I can give you a name and phone number of a karaoke co. that received one of the letters, He has removed all the SC off of his cav's machine. If you want to PM me.
Times like this I'm glad that we have very few SC tracks and absolutely no Stellar tracks. Whether this all turns out to be true or not, I prefer sticking to those that are available online for many reasons, most notably their forward thinking business approach and partnership (rather than antagonist) role with the professional KJ.
If SC and Stellar are really going to push this they'll lose miserably. There are already too many companies making their goods available in MP3+G format at this pace they're worse than the RIAA. I'm just sticking to Chartbuster, CAVS, Panorama, Zoom and the others that I can get through CAVS and Tricerasoft.
If SC and Stellar are really going to push this they'll lose miserably. There are already too many companies making their goods available in MP3+G format at this pace they're worse than the RIAA. I'm just sticking to Chartbuster, CAVS, Panorama, Zoom and the others that I can get through CAVS and Tricerasoft.
POSTING FOUND ON ANOTHER FORUM
dated 1am EST March 8, 2007
(THIS HAS BEEN CONDENSED)
per a Phoenix KJ
The letters you are talking about have been sent via certified mail to nearly every one of our bars.
The letter is a simple cover letter telling the bar they are at risk by having a host using computer based Karaoke systems and it then contains a copy of the Sound Choice press release
I have over the years personally reported 5 different hosts who I know were using illegal copies with NO originals.
SPIN, KAPA, Sound choice DID NOTHING!
I have given them name, physical address, e-mails on several individuals selling hard drives. I offered them the hard drive as evidence. It contains 105,000 karaoke songs and the ENTIRE Sound Choice catalog.
THEY DID NOTHING!
I have sent them user name and info for karaokeinfo.com and pleaded for them to bust them…. NOTHING!
We have been doing karaoke for over 12 years and we have over 100,000 in receipts for originals. I subscribed to Power Picks for 4 years and purchased 3 of every disk. We have over $35,000 in just Sound Choice receipts. We are a computerized Karaoke company, but we DO have one for one versions of all disks, but we do not keep them at shows... (that kind of kills the whole benefit).
I have posted where I am running all of my Karaoke shows on Sound Choice's forums and told them to come and get me so we can go see the judge. They deleted my post and you guessed it... THEY DID NOTHING!
If the preceding is real, and I tend to believe it is, as I suspected there were no "cease and desist" letters sent. What ALL of the bars in Phoenix received, according to the poster, was simply a copy of the "press release". This information is consistent with what I came to believe when I started to doubt how interested SC and Stellar really are in pursuing litigation. Consider this - the only poster to any forum who claims to have seen the "cease and desist" letter couldn't produce a copy of it. So, IMHO, SC and Stellar have been stirring up the pot with a well-planned strategy that included strategically placed threats. If you believe the rest of the above post about those manufacturers ignoring reports of people selling HD's with pirated libraries, what can you really expect their posture is/will be regarding heavy-duty litigation with KJ's who have unpirated material on HD's?
EDITED March 8, 2007 10:10
One of the things that made me suspicious from the "getgo" was/is the lack of input to any forum directly from SC or Stellar. If they were really doing anything that had legal "teeth", it would have behooved them to approach all related forums (including their own) and to explain and justify their strategy to the industry, and to ask for support of it. SINCE, if you believe the above post, there is nothing actually going on in terms of law suits (criminial or civil), there is nothing for SC or Stellar to announce or discuss. Meanwhile the industry has spent 100's of hours discussing the "problem" on various forums. We were all duped into helping them accomplish their goal, and it worked! I THINK IT'S TIME TO ABANDON THOSE MANUFACTURERS AND THEIR PRODUCTS!
dated 1am EST March 8, 2007
(THIS HAS BEEN CONDENSED)
per a Phoenix KJ
The letters you are talking about have been sent via certified mail to nearly every one of our bars.
The letter is a simple cover letter telling the bar they are at risk by having a host using computer based Karaoke systems and it then contains a copy of the Sound Choice press release
I have over the years personally reported 5 different hosts who I know were using illegal copies with NO originals.
SPIN, KAPA, Sound choice DID NOTHING!
I have given them name, physical address, e-mails on several individuals selling hard drives. I offered them the hard drive as evidence. It contains 105,000 karaoke songs and the ENTIRE Sound Choice catalog.
THEY DID NOTHING!
I have sent them user name and info for karaokeinfo.com and pleaded for them to bust them…. NOTHING!
We have been doing karaoke for over 12 years and we have over 100,000 in receipts for originals. I subscribed to Power Picks for 4 years and purchased 3 of every disk. We have over $35,000 in just Sound Choice receipts. We are a computerized Karaoke company, but we DO have one for one versions of all disks, but we do not keep them at shows... (that kind of kills the whole benefit).
I have posted where I am running all of my Karaoke shows on Sound Choice's forums and told them to come and get me so we can go see the judge. They deleted my post and you guessed it... THEY DID NOTHING!
If the preceding is real, and I tend to believe it is, as I suspected there were no "cease and desist" letters sent. What ALL of the bars in Phoenix received, according to the poster, was simply a copy of the "press release". This information is consistent with what I came to believe when I started to doubt how interested SC and Stellar really are in pursuing litigation. Consider this - the only poster to any forum who claims to have seen the "cease and desist" letter couldn't produce a copy of it. So, IMHO, SC and Stellar have been stirring up the pot with a well-planned strategy that included strategically placed threats. If you believe the rest of the above post about those manufacturers ignoring reports of people selling HD's with pirated libraries, what can you really expect their posture is/will be regarding heavy-duty litigation with KJ's who have unpirated material on HD's?
EDITED March 8, 2007 10:10
One of the things that made me suspicious from the "getgo" was/is the lack of input to any forum directly from SC or Stellar. If they were really doing anything that had legal "teeth", it would have behooved them to approach all related forums (including their own) and to explain and justify their strategy to the industry, and to ask for support of it. SINCE, if you believe the above post, there is nothing actually going on in terms of law suits (criminial or civil), there is nothing for SC or Stellar to announce or discuss. Meanwhile the industry has spent 100's of hours discussing the "problem" on various forums. We were all duped into helping them accomplish their goal, and it worked! I THINK IT'S TIME TO ABANDON THOSE MANUFACTURERS AND THEIR PRODUCTS!
I find it interesting that you would embrace a posting on another site and not ask for some kind of proof as you have asked of me. Although I understand that when, the veiws of the post are what you want to here it becomes easier to over look. If you've been back to that site you'll see that there are some who would question the author of that post. So let me point out a few more discrepencies now that I am aware of them. The actual letter that was sent, that I have seen is now posted on the karaoke star website. It is what I have seen, also I have talked to the author of that letter, Shelby Wood at SC, her number is on the letter. According to her there have only been 20 to 25 letters sent to this area as of this date. None of which have been sent certified to this point. Which would be consistant with calls being made and not everyone would be aware. If she's not lying that certainly would be a long stretch from the post that you have paraphrased. She was willing to say that there are more on the way to this area, but it takes time to research before they send them. There are a number of other inconsistancies, in that post, which some have been pointed out. But the biggest would be why SC or Stellar could have the standing to go after someone for copyright violations. According to both stellar and SC They have, at this point copyrighted all their karaoke versions. So this is how it works. A person who uses a copy of a cdg from a "legal" manufacturer that has gotten permission for the mechanical copyright ( the sheet music) then makes their own version and then sends a copy and aprox. $30.00 with a copyright form to someplace and it's kept on file. So actually by making a copy under these circumstances you would be breaking 2 copyrights, the original artst and the karaoke version, which gives them the standing to take legal action. I also believe that in talking with shelby wood that your board adminisrator has a copy of the same letter that has been e-mailed directly to him
I'm glad you mentioned this or I would have not known about it. My spam filter filed the email as spam.I also believe that in talking with shelby wood that your board adminisrator has a copy of the same letter that has been e-mailed directly to him
Below is what I received.
The letter below is being sent in the Phoenix and Scottsdale area. Our letters are not a hoax and we are taking action.
If you feel you can help in some way please give me a call at 1-888-210-6100. Thanks for your concern,
With Best Regards,
Shelby W, Wood
Business Affairs Director
Sound Choice Multimedia
Dear…..(Bar Owner)
This letter is to inform you that we have received information reporting that your establishment has been hiring or providing entertainment that violates certain US Copyright laws (17 U.S.C. §§ 102, 201, 201d) and the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA, title 1, and 17 U.S.C. §§ 109, 117). The specific complaint is that you have contracted with a Karaoke host/company who has a Karaoke music library, or have purchased your own Karaoke music library, which contains illegal copies of Sound Choice copyrighted music, either on “burned” CDGs or DVDs, or computerized copies.
As the owner or manager of an establishment that uses Karaoke entertainment, you may not understand how serious this offense may be. Karaoke hosts who use illegal copies of music also put your business at risk. Some of the consequences that you could face include:
¨ Fines up to $250,000 and/or up to 6 months in jail per occurrence (per occurrence is per copied song, and per each time a copied song is played).
¨ Confiscation of equipment used to play the contraband music, such as speakers, players, and amplifiers that may belong to your facility.
¨ Potential risk of the loss or suspension of the liquor license for bars/clubs using contraband music or contracting with KJs using contraband music.
It is our hope that, by providing you with this notification, you will be able to protect your business. Compliance is easy. The law requires all Karaoke hosts to use original manufacturer produced music formats (CDGs, DVDs, Tapes, etc.). We are including a flyer with information about how to identify illegal copies of CDGs. If your current karaoke hosts are unable to produce and exclusively use original productions of their music in their original format, we recommend that you hire hosts who do comply with the US Copyright regulations by buying and using original Karaoke products.
Sound Choice music is never licensed for use on any hard drive, so any Sound Choice songs on a hard drive are illegal copies. The publishers do not sell licensing for computerized music. This is to protect the artist rights to royalties. To do so, makes you in violation of the law as well as copyright and trademark infringement of Sound Choice products. Sound Choice does not sell hard-drives for this reason. The fines start at $1,000.00 per song working in conjunction with the FBI for publishing rights of the artist.
It is not our desire to take unnecessary legal action, and hopefully this information will enable you to insure that your karaoke hosts are operating legitimately. It is our intention to follow-up on this report and to make a determination if the violation has ceased. If the violation has ceased it will no longer be necessary for us to take any further action. Please contact us immediately at 888-210-6100, if you believe that the information we have received is in error and/or to resolve this situation.
Thank you for your cooperation and compliance.
Sincerely,
Shelby W. Wood
Business Affairs Director
Sound Choice Multimedia
14100 South Lakes Drive
Charlotte, N. C. 28273
Toll Number: 888-210-6100
Direct Line: 704-583-1616 Ext: 1129
So, now we have the actual document that has stirred up the "hornet's nest"
IT IS NOT A CEASE AND DESIST LETTER. So my instincts were correct that there never was such a letter. The letter that was actually sent simply provided the recipient with general information about copyright law. And, apparently, the letter intentionally avoided any threats of civil or criminal actions.
I believe that if SC/Stellar thought they could actually come out ahead (financially) in a lawsuit regarding format shifting they would have initiated one by now. I haven't yet figured out, however, why SC/Stellar have not, with all of the HD shows in Phoenix, tried to "nail" anyone for piracy? Isn't that interesting considering the efforts they would like us to believe that they are undertaking at this time?
I still question whether karaoke manus have a legal interest (i.e rights) in the question of "format shifting", but I don't know?
IMHO, WE WERE DUPED and are stilling being duped, hopefully, somehow, SC/Stellar will receive their "just desserts" in return.
A local KJ (who is uninvolved with any online forums) told me last Thursday that he had heard a RUMOR THAT SOMEONE IS LOOKING INTO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THERE ARE GROUNDS TO SUE SC REGARDING THE LETTER THEY SENT. THIS, AGAIN, IS JUST A RUMOR!
IT IS NOT A CEASE AND DESIST LETTER. So my instincts were correct that there never was such a letter. The letter that was actually sent simply provided the recipient with general information about copyright law. And, apparently, the letter intentionally avoided any threats of civil or criminal actions.
I believe that if SC/Stellar thought they could actually come out ahead (financially) in a lawsuit regarding format shifting they would have initiated one by now. I haven't yet figured out, however, why SC/Stellar have not, with all of the HD shows in Phoenix, tried to "nail" anyone for piracy? Isn't that interesting considering the efforts they would like us to believe that they are undertaking at this time?
I still question whether karaoke manus have a legal interest (i.e rights) in the question of "format shifting", but I don't know?
IMHO, WE WERE DUPED and are stilling being duped, hopefully, somehow, SC/Stellar will receive their "just desserts" in return.
A local KJ (who is uninvolved with any online forums) told me last Thursday that he had heard a RUMOR THAT SOMEONE IS LOOKING INTO THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THERE ARE GROUNDS TO SUE SC REGARDING THE LETTER THEY SENT. THIS, AGAIN, IS JUST A RUMOR!
While I never doubted that SC or Stellar would send out such a letter, I am very doubtful that they can successfully prosecute someone for loading the song tracks, from legally obtained karaoke discs, onto a single hard drive. Only when they can achieve this will the karaoke community take them seriously. And that will be the start of their downfall.wyndy wrote:I believe that if SC/Stellar thought they could actually come out ahead (financially) in a lawsuit regarding format shifting they would have initiated one by now. I haven't yet figured out, however, why SC/Stellar have not, with all of the HD shows in Phoenix, tried to "nail" anyone for piracy? Isn't that interesting considering the efforts they would like us to believe that they are undertaking at this time?
