Bar hoppers

[karaoke guy]

By the way, wiseguy, I've been in the karaoke world for a little over 15 years now. based on what I've read from your posts I have to say that, from a customer's perspective I would consider you to be a very strict host who doesn't flex and I would go on down the road to someone else's show who seems to be a bit friendlier. The only reason I would forbid someone to sing is if they are cursing at my audience. For example, I had a guy come in and he sang a John Denver song. He told the audience "I'm gonna sing this song because I like it. If you don't like my song then F*%@ you." He sang and when he was done nobody clapped (no surprise). He then proceeded to cuss my guests out again. Needless to say, I banned him from ever singing at any one of my 10 shows.

If a person leaves the bar and isn't there when I call their name, I simply move them down the list and call out their name from time to time until they tell me they are back. Sometimes they just go to the bathroom or go sit on the patio for a little bit. I'm not going to punish anyone just because he/she has to go potty or wants some fresh air. It's not their responsibility to tell me they have left or that they have returned. I appreciate it when they do, but they are not obligated to. However, if they don't respond after four attempts I will remove them but that's only because I spread calling them over 25 minutes. If they aren't back in 25 minutes, I assume they are gone for the night.

[wiseguy]

I'm not putting you down so don't you put me down.

Please forgive me if you thought my comments were a personal attack against you. That was not my intention. My comments were directed at your "stated" rules of rotation. The singers in my area take singing seriously and will quickly become upset if not treated fairly. In "my opinion", if you except bribes to move someone up in rotation then your rotation is unfair. After all, you are already being paid.

[karaoke guy]

I appreciate your prompt reply an retraction. It did come off a little bit offensive. I work very hard to ensure that my guests have a fantastic time at my show. I have been utilizing this system for over two years and I have had very few complaints. No system works perfectly. I realize there might be a better way but this way satisfies 98% of my customers (results of last survey). I don't like taking "bribes" but I understand that some people really want to sing and just can't wait for 2 hours (their reasons are not my concern). If they want to sing so badly that they will pay for it, then I assume it's pretty dog-gone important to them. My que list is posted in between songs so everyone can see when they are up in the rotation so it keeps the show honest for the most part. Don't get me wrong. I don't make this a habit. In my experience 1 out of every 10 shows has someone paying that kind of money to sing. Most just tip because they are having a good time. I run a fair show but I do make special consideration as the situation dictates.

I sold my old company and started my new show just three weeks ago and already I've signed 6 venues and 4 more are slated to begin in the coming month. All of this is based on my reputation from my old company. Believe me when I say that this system works. It's not flawless, and I know it could be better but I don't walk a hard line. I am willing to flex based on the situation. For example, a group air force pilots flew in to town and came out to one of my shows. They weren't from around here so we had a little fun. I jumped up and sang "Danger Zone" and dedicated it to them. Then one of my regulars sang a Sinatra tune. The girls in the audience went crazy and were "swooning" to his crooning. The air force pilots were laughing as they carried on. Impulsively, I decided to let him sing again. I suggested the girls go grab a pilot and dance.... It worked! Everyone had a great time that night and the bar sold more liquor than ever before and it was only my second show.

My point is this.... there are many, many ways to run a show. Some ways work better than other ways but I believe that every situation dictates the performance. As long as we all have a good time then what's the harm?

I once had a family of four come in to the restaurant we working that particular night. They were only there for dinner and it was a school night. Their seven year old son wanted to sing but the list was 27 people strong. By your unwaivering standards, he would have had to wait for all those people to sing. I simply brought him to the stage and told the crowd he really wanted to sing but he had to go soon. I asked them if it would be ok if he sang next. They screamed and cheered and applauded and the little boy stood in a chair and sang "Row, row, row your boat". Everyone loved it and he had a great time. Now, instead of leaving, wishing he could have sang, he left happy. Everyone loved it and he said he loves karaoke now.

Everyone's a winner.

[wiseguy]

I once had a family of four come in to the restaurant we working that particular night. They were only there for dinner and it was a school night. Their seven year old son wanted to sing but the list was 27 people strong. By your unwaivering standards, he would have had to wait for all those people to sing.

I don't think you understood my position on new singers. I always put new singers near, or at, the top of the rotation. This helps me insure that everyone who turns in a request will get to sing at least once. That young boy would have been up to sing very soon after submitting a request.

I too came off a little bit offensive. Unfair singer rotation is the main reason I started doing karaoke. Back then, before there were all that many karaoke companies around, I had gone to a few different karaoke shows. Time after time I watched the hosts play favorites with their friends and family or girls that they liked. It simply pissed me off and I went and bought my own system. It wasn't long before I drew all the singers away from the other shows just by being fair.

We may not agree on the right way to run a karaoke show but I certainly respect your right run yours your own way. I also appreciate that you take the time to join in the discussions on this forum.

[karaoke guy]

All that aside, I know exactly what you mean when you talk about getting mad at unfair rotations. There was another karaoke company here in town and they had about 7 people "working" for them. These people were singing every other song. Man, that really made a lot of people mad. We ended up with all their shows and they have since left town. Not that we ran them out of town. They felt they could make more money in a bigger city. I hear they are making good money but they still have the same rotation.

I think we actually have the same perspective. We both love karaoke and we want to make it as fair and as fun as possible for our guests.

I propose we not let little differences become big dramatic issues and instead, work together to promote karaoke in our respective regions. By the way, what part of the country are you in?

[wiseguy]

I propose we not let little differences become big dramatic issues and instead, work together to promote karaoke in our respective regions.

I agree completely.

I'm in the northern panhandle of West Virginia. Karaoke is still going strong here. How about your area?

[karaoke guy]

I'm in a college town about a hundred miles from Houston, Texas. Karaoke is good here but not much room for competition. The company I started has the best venues in town. I left that company to start another and it's a bit of a challenge. I've got four shows a week but they are hit or miss depending on the students' schedule. If there is a big test coming up, the nightlife is dead. Any suggestions?

[wiseguy]

I really don't have much experience with college crowds. Years ago I was performing at a huge warehouse that was turned into a bar and was right next to the largest college in the area. It seemed strange to me at first when I was asked to start my show at 6:00 pm. The place got absolutely packed before seven o'clock and started to die off shortly after 9. I guess the owners knew what hours the students kept.

The karaoke crowd in my area is a bit older than what yours is. Typically the 25 to 50 age group and predominately into country music. Brad Paisley grew up just 4 miles from where I'm sitting. The bars around here are basically the small, neighborhood type. It seems like everybody and his brother has started a karaoke business which has led to a lot of fly-by-night companies running around undercutting each other. I'm just glad I got established early.

[elksld]

I don't agree with putting "new" singers up ahead of people that have already sung. If I've been there early and you came late, it's your tough luck. As far as I'm concerned, you stay in line where you turned in your slip. I believe in "first come, first served."

These "late" singers don't spend as much money as those of us that have been there early supporting the KJ. It's been my experience that they've already about had their limit and spent very little while they are there.

If a KJ starts putting "new" singers ahead of me just because I've already sung, they don't get my repeat business. And if I've got to "buy" my way up the rotation, then they definitely won't get my business...

[wiseguy]

I don't agree with putting "new" singers up ahead of people that have already sung. If I've been there early and you came late, it's your tough luck. As far as I'm concerned, you stay in line where you turned in your slip. I believe in "first come, first served."

These "late" singers don't spend as much money as those of us that have been there early supporting the KJ. It's been my experience that they've already about had their limit and spent very little while they are there.

If a KJ starts putting "new" singers ahead of me just because I've already sung, they don't get my repeat business. And if I've got to "buy" my way up the rotation, then they definitely won't get my business...

You're speaking from a singers perspective. It's the KJ's job to try to give "every" customer a chance to sing at least once. Take a scenario where a 4 hour show starts at 8:00 pm. At 10:00 you have a rotation of 30 singers that have all sang at least once. New customers enter the bar and turn in song requests. If you place these requests at the bottom of the rotation, these people will not get to sing. This in unacceptable as these are also paying customers. I will place these requests at the top of the rotation, and after they sing once, they will go to the bottom just like the rest. The only exception being those that come in during the last 30 minutes of the show at which point I no longer accept requests.

[Bigdog]

KJs that show favoritism to certain people over time get a bad reputation from it.

You end up with a following but it's a false following. You'll never get new singers coming back. Unless you kiss their butt too.

Favoritism hurts the bars reputation and yours.

It's the fastest way I know to kill your business. Except for running contests.

[kjsrbest]

I don't agree with putting "new" singers up ahead of people that have already sung. If I've been there early and you came late, it's your tough luck. As far as I'm concerned, you stay in line where you turned in your slip. I believe in "first come, first served."

These "late" singers don't spend as much money as those of us that have been there early supporting the KJ. It's been my experience that they've already about had their limit and spent very little while they are there.

If a KJ starts putting "new" singers ahead of me just because I've already sung, they don't get my repeat business. And if I've got to "buy" my way up the rotation, then they definitely won't get my business...

elksld~~You are absolutely right in thinking the way you do. We have trained and the KJ's whether with us still, do the same thing~
We ran a fair rotation! As far as we were concerned, the rotation benefited the bar owner. If patrons chose to drink somewhere else because it may have been cheaper, and partied, sang, whatever~ then came in late at night thinking they were going to sing a handleful of slips~ it did not happen. We catered to those who patronized the bar all night long. If you came in at 10:00 to maybe 10:30pm and we started at 9:00, then you were put in immediately following a rotation. You still were maybe able to sing a few songs if you stayed all evening and there were many singers. From 10:30 to midnight or so you were put here and there. From midnight on you went ususally at the end of the rotation because you drank somewhere else, perhaps cheaper without entertainment, and then thought you could come up and sing all night. Didn't, and doesn't happen. Too many of the drunks you don't want to patronize to anyway, only will sing after they had way too many. They will c
ome in and think they should sing all night long. We were there to make the bar owner happy. Why should I give them immediate recognition when I am here to make the owner happy, keep the regulars happy and keep my job. If I play favorites to them, the regulars that spend money week after week, on food, drinks etc. will not be back. Or worse! They will only come out for about an hour or so and go home because they know after 10:30 they can't sing again.
You are there to make money for the bar. If you keep them happy you will be happy. If you don't and they lose customers, you will be looking for a new venue.

[Bigdog]

I want everyone to be happy. You can never make everyone happy. There will always be someone that wouldn't be happy with a one man rotation.

You have to put the new singers in somewhere. If you come early you will sing more. You may not sing as many as you want, but being early has a better chance than being late.

20 people in the rotation means that you will sing one song every 1 1/2 hours. So it doesn't matter where the new singers go. It's still 1 1/2 hours till your next number.

I try get every singer to have at least one song.

If they come in at 11 PM and you have a 2 hour rotation. You came in at 9PM. You have been there 2 hours. If you stay all night you will be there 4 hours. If they stay they will be there 2 hours. You will still sing more times that they do, just because you came early. They are still spending money for 2 hours. Should they not get to sing at least once? Everyone has to go into the rotation somewhere.

I work new singers in, in between the old singers. Where you go depends on how many singers and new singers I get. What time it is and if you're a jerk or not. If you work late and come every week, I'll feel sorry for you. If you drink all night at another bar and want to sing all night, it won't happen.

Just be happy that you have a KJ that doesn't play favorites with anyone. If he does it the same every time, what's the beef?????? You may come in late and get the same treatment as everyone else.

You could always spend several thousand dollars and put them out of business. I have had many people think they could put me under. They are long gone.....

[letitrip]

I'm 100% with Bigdog on this. We've got singers who will sign up for 10-15 songs a night. They get there right away and throw in their songs right away. Now with that many songs in, they know they'll never sing them all. Some nights they're lucky to get 3 of them. However, I'd have a real problem letting them sing a 6 person rotation when I've got a another 4 singers in the queue that came later who could make it a 10 person rotation. If someone comes in and signs up (before the last half hour unless things are really dying down and I can squeeze them in) I'll get them up to sing. It's just good business sense to get as many different singers as you can.

I'll say, some of the most fun I've had at Karaoke nights were where there was a longer rotation and I only got to sing 3-4 songs or less. Even as a singer, it gets boring to me if I'm one of only a couple people singing.

[CharleyMarbles]

Sounds fair to me


Chuck