From all of my observations...the week night crowds are dropping.
Sunday thru Thursdays are slowing down. Even with the younger people. And this also includes DJ attendance where they have all dance music all night long. Not done by me but with real DJs.
It seems the weekends are doing a little more traffic now.
Sunday afternoon football games are killing my Sunday night. People aren't showing up in the evening after the day of football. And it doesn't matter if our team wins or loses...
Week Night Attendance
Had an interesting conversation last night with my bar owner.
The discussion was based on the lack of revenue being generated by karaoke lately.
I made the argument that the karaoke singers have been dissed because of the sporting events over riding the karaoke until the games end.
His main comment was..this is a sports bar. I mentioned his free buffet for the football crowd and the drink specials for the hockey games and the NOTHING for the karaoke singers.
Besides being a sports bar..you can't watch sports with the sound down. Now He is a big sports fan. Obviously that's why he started a sports bar.
He also thought my starting a saturday night karaoke at his competition was stupid. He doesn't believe I can make it a successful night before the bar closes forever. He knows the bar/restaurant isn't doing that well.
I told him I could if the bar food and booze prices don't kill me first.
His bottom line in all of this is.....
There are many karaoke singers that are very nice people but if they stop coming the bar won't close down...They don't spend enough money to make a difference to him...
He did say we should get together to figure out how to get a younger crowd and what type of specials to run to do this. I know one thing...it won't be with me playing rap or hip hop...or dance sets...
But..when the sports season comes around again...sports is king and karaoke gets the back burner during the games.
So let's build the karaoke crowd up all summer and kill it next fall...
He seems to think the college aged kids will make the summer successful, inspite of everything.
I maintain the week nights are going to crash for all types of live entertainment and the weekends will increase. Week nights never will top weekends, especially in this economy...
I say he's right on the verge of canning karaoke for good... possibly this fall if the numbers don't grow...
The karaoke crowds were much bigger several years ago...He started to cater to the sports crowd more and more. He insulted the singers that are not sports fans and were coming regularly. Now they are gone for the most part and in his words..."Karaoke is dying." Yes when you kill it ...it does die.
So what suggestions does anyone have to get around this problem short of walking....
This is a sports bar first...I keep getting reminded of that.
Now remember he found me I didn't find him. He told me repeatedly that He wanted his bar to be the best karaoke bar around.
Something along the way changed....My opinion is the karaoke singers provide a stable all year long income while the sports is a seasonal income....But the seasonal sports income is bigger than the year long karaoke crowd now. Our professional teams are hot right now...I say if he catered to the singers like he does the sports fans...he would be wrong.
But now it's all too late because the die is cast and everything shifted....obvioulsy his best karaoke bar around idea has lost momentum. And changed to being the best sports bar around...
In the beginning the karaoke nights just kept getting bigger....the economic crash and the emphasis on the sports started happening at the same time presenting the karaoke nights with a double whammy...
I thought $8,000 a month rent was high...his is $10,000.
It's a nonsmoking bar....I was surprised they told me the Friday night DJ plays mostly country music and the crowd is mostly younger people. I asked how come those younger people don't come out to sing country karaoke? We have no answer... He just had his biggest saturday night this week and that was a different DJ...again with a younger leaning crowd...
The singers I have been getting seem to be mixed leaning slightly to the older side. The older people are more frugal with their spending...This seems to be his big sticking point. Younger equals more money in the register...
He's still holding on to the idea that he needs karaoke as a supplement to everything else...But I keep taking pay cuts to keep the job. I know if I ask for full money I'll be walking...he's basing it on the register tape...at the end of the night...
This is 2 nights for me with the potential of $20,000 a year...if I was paid full money every night. Even with the cuts it's over $15,000 and I just took a 2 night cut...Got one back at a starting rate right now...so still lost over $10,000. Nonsmoking venues are not easy to come by and I don't want to look for 2 more nights...
Again....
If we had an economy we wouldn't be having this conversation...people are just spending less money...
Signed, hanging on by a finger nail...
The discussion was based on the lack of revenue being generated by karaoke lately.
I made the argument that the karaoke singers have been dissed because of the sporting events over riding the karaoke until the games end.
His main comment was..this is a sports bar. I mentioned his free buffet for the football crowd and the drink specials for the hockey games and the NOTHING for the karaoke singers.
Besides being a sports bar..you can't watch sports with the sound down. Now He is a big sports fan. Obviously that's why he started a sports bar.
He also thought my starting a saturday night karaoke at his competition was stupid. He doesn't believe I can make it a successful night before the bar closes forever. He knows the bar/restaurant isn't doing that well.
I told him I could if the bar food and booze prices don't kill me first.
His bottom line in all of this is.....
There are many karaoke singers that are very nice people but if they stop coming the bar won't close down...They don't spend enough money to make a difference to him...
He did say we should get together to figure out how to get a younger crowd and what type of specials to run to do this. I know one thing...it won't be with me playing rap or hip hop...or dance sets...
But..when the sports season comes around again...sports is king and karaoke gets the back burner during the games.
So let's build the karaoke crowd up all summer and kill it next fall...
He seems to think the college aged kids will make the summer successful, inspite of everything.
I maintain the week nights are going to crash for all types of live entertainment and the weekends will increase. Week nights never will top weekends, especially in this economy...
I say he's right on the verge of canning karaoke for good... possibly this fall if the numbers don't grow...
The karaoke crowds were much bigger several years ago...He started to cater to the sports crowd more and more. He insulted the singers that are not sports fans and were coming regularly. Now they are gone for the most part and in his words..."Karaoke is dying." Yes when you kill it ...it does die.
So what suggestions does anyone have to get around this problem short of walking....
This is a sports bar first...I keep getting reminded of that.
Now remember he found me I didn't find him. He told me repeatedly that He wanted his bar to be the best karaoke bar around.
Something along the way changed....My opinion is the karaoke singers provide a stable all year long income while the sports is a seasonal income....But the seasonal sports income is bigger than the year long karaoke crowd now. Our professional teams are hot right now...I say if he catered to the singers like he does the sports fans...he would be wrong.
But now it's all too late because the die is cast and everything shifted....obvioulsy his best karaoke bar around idea has lost momentum. And changed to being the best sports bar around...
In the beginning the karaoke nights just kept getting bigger....the economic crash and the emphasis on the sports started happening at the same time presenting the karaoke nights with a double whammy...
I thought $8,000 a month rent was high...his is $10,000.
It's a nonsmoking bar....I was surprised they told me the Friday night DJ plays mostly country music and the crowd is mostly younger people. I asked how come those younger people don't come out to sing country karaoke? We have no answer... He just had his biggest saturday night this week and that was a different DJ...again with a younger leaning crowd...
The singers I have been getting seem to be mixed leaning slightly to the older side. The older people are more frugal with their spending...This seems to be his big sticking point. Younger equals more money in the register...
He's still holding on to the idea that he needs karaoke as a supplement to everything else...But I keep taking pay cuts to keep the job. I know if I ask for full money I'll be walking...he's basing it on the register tape...at the end of the night...
This is 2 nights for me with the potential of $20,000 a year...if I was paid full money every night. Even with the cuts it's over $15,000 and I just took a 2 night cut...Got one back at a starting rate right now...so still lost over $10,000. Nonsmoking venues are not easy to come by and I don't want to look for 2 more nights...
Again....
If we had an economy we wouldn't be having this conversation...people are just spending less money...
Signed, hanging on by a finger nail...
I have no doubt that after all the years of performing karaoke in bars that you know the bar business better than most bar owners. After all it has always been your focus to draw in crowds with entertainment and to keep them there buying drinks. You're being hampered by dimwitted bar owners who don't have a clue of what it takes to be successful.
Isn't it the logical conclusion that your next venture should be to open a full time karaoke bar. One that will be run the way you know the singers will flock to. I don't really see how you could miss.
Isn't it the logical conclusion that your next venture should be to open a full time karaoke bar. One that will be run the way you know the singers will flock to. I don't really see how you could miss.
I have considered it many times. The needed cash outlay is not in my grasp. He has a partner with him. Now from our conversations it took over $300,000 to get up and running and the bills were barely getting met during the startup few years...He paid over $100,000 for his liqour license. Giant Eagle is buying them up for $250,000 now...wiseguy wrote:I have no doubt that after all the years of performing karaoke in bars that you know the bar business better than most bar owners. After all it has always been your focus to draw in crowds with entertainment and to keep them there buying drinks. You're being hampered by dimwitted bar owners who don't have a clue of what it takes to be successful.
Isn't it the logical conclusion that your next venture should be to open a full time karaoke bar. One that will be run the way you know the singers will flock to. I don't really see how you could miss.
They are hard to come by. Plus rent is outrageous.I would do karaoke 7 nights a week.
I have also seen the caliber of the work pool these bar owners have to hire from...I have seen many worthless owners and managers and staff in all types of bar/restaurants.
I have some more things to mention to him when the time is right.
I say if he didn't supliment his income with other forms of entertainment his business would be on the rocks because there isn't enough patronage/loyalty from the sports fans to make a living...
We are 30 miles from a major downtown area. Where the stadiums are a sports bar can be very successful with almost 2 million people to draw from.
30 miles out in an old cow pasture the potential pool of customers is much lower and since he keyholed the potential pool by designating himself as a "sports" bar that pool is even smaller.
He is a bull head that thinks his sports bar is a huge success. He did do over million dollars last year....I say the sports fans income alone would have been half of that or less. He is always going to win the/his argument...
Something else....he put me on off nights..I think so he could do DJs on the weekends. He has made it sound like karaoke will never do well on a weekend. When I told him about my other successful Fridays and Saturdays...his excuse was I was in an upscale neighborhood with a bigger customer pool. True but there is also a lot more competition to deal with. It took time to build up these nights but once that happened they were solid.
I started working in a fine dining restaurant/bar again where the customer pool is much smaller. Most of the money around here is old money. These people are ready for the nusing home, not fine dining. So again if this was downtown it's a different ballgame...no pun intended. He is going to need to supliment his dinner income or go under. This, I think is going to require a menu downgrade and price cut. Just to increase the size of the customer pool. There is a Wendy's and McDonalds within 500 feet of his business. That's his competition...and with this economy they are pretty busy.
The proof is in his low numbers now after 3 years being open. He's looking for a manager maybe I should apply.
I can already see some major changes I would make. With his visions of fine dining not happening will he be willing to change/alter his course to stay open?
If he wouldn't have keyholed himself like the sports bar did...a course correction would be a little easier to make....I would never designate my bar as anything but a bar so I could draw from the biggest customer pool.
How many karaoke singers are going to want to come to a fine dining establishment week after week? To me it announces loud and clear...we have high prices...
I hate food surprises especially if they cost a lot of money. I'm very picky about what I eat and everything always starts out sounding wonderful until you start reading what they do to it...Like grilled onions or pepper this and spicy that with blacked stuff and oriental ...I'm a meat and potatos guy.
Most people aren't thinking about fine dining on a monday or tueday or wednesday or thursday..so repeat customers is another downfall. He's looking at a once a week or every other week customer. There simply aren't enough to go around. Maybe a lesser weekday menu...?? Nail them with big money foods on the weekends...
Regardless, without a supplimental form of entertainment all bets are off.
$100,000 for a liquor license? That must be for a franchise. Why would Giant Eagle need a liquor license? They don't serve drinks... do they? Selling unopened bottles is a whole different thing in most places requiring an entirely different type of license. In WV anyone without a felony criminal record can buy a liquor license for around $2,000 a year.
Liqour licenses are based on population size. So many licenses issued for so many thousnads of people. So once they are gone you have to wait. Then the price is whatever someone will pay....
Giant Eagle is starting to sell beer in stores and they want the licenses. It's pretty hard to turn down a 1/4 million...I heard of several bars closing to sell their licenses to them.
Normally they went for around $25,000 that's a big difference...most bars aren't worth $250,000 and they got that just for the paper and they could still sell the building...
Tonight sucked.....I play in a hotel on Wednesdays...there was a police chase and the driver rolled over and went airborne hitting some parked cars.
The investigation somehow lead the police to a room in the hotel...So now put several state police cars right in front of the main entrance right before I start karaoke...GHOST TOWN....Oh wait two guys came in sang one song each and drank one beer each then left. But then 3 girls came in and drank FREE water....
I left early with $25 dollars....I cut the owner a big break since he didn't make any money...I probably made as much as he did...
Giant Eagle is starting to sell beer in stores and they want the licenses. It's pretty hard to turn down a 1/4 million...I heard of several bars closing to sell their licenses to them.
Normally they went for around $25,000 that's a big difference...most bars aren't worth $250,000 and they got that just for the paper and they could still sell the building...
Tonight sucked.....I play in a hotel on Wednesdays...there was a police chase and the driver rolled over and went airborne hitting some parked cars.
The investigation somehow lead the police to a room in the hotel...So now put several state police cars right in front of the main entrance right before I start karaoke...GHOST TOWN....Oh wait two guys came in sang one song each and drank one beer each then left. But then 3 girls came in and drank FREE water....
I left early with $25 dollars....I cut the owner a big break since he didn't make any money...I probably made as much as he did...
Big full moon weekend and I left early tonight (sunday) with no money..one singer from 9-11...
Can't even ask for $25 FOR SHOWING UP...BECAUSE THE BAR OWNER IS SPOILED BY A $50 A NIGHT DJ...SO IF i ASK FOR $25...THAT'S HALF OF WHAT HE PAYS THE DJ...
This DJ needs to die so the bar owner understands how cheap and unreasonable his price is...
Can't even ask for $25 FOR SHOWING UP...BECAUSE THE BAR OWNER IS SPOILED BY A $50 A NIGHT DJ...SO IF i ASK FOR $25...THAT'S HALF OF WHAT HE PAYS THE DJ...
This DJ needs to die so the bar owner understands how cheap and unreasonable his price is...
Bigdog wrote:Big full moon weekend and I left early tonight (sunday) with no money..one singer from 9-11...
Can't even ask for $25 FOR SHOWING UP...BECAUSE THE BAR OWNER IS SPOILED BY A $50 A NIGHT DJ...SO IF i ASK FOR $25...THAT'S HALF OF WHAT HE PAYS THE DJ...
This DJ needs to die so the bar owner understands how cheap and unreasonable his price is...
I'm not going to kill him ....but if he had a heart attack...from being old and a heavy boozer..
BIG POLICE CHASE UPDATE:
I may as well kill myself now because this job is just about toast.
The chase started when UNDERCOVER state police approached the guy in the parking lot for suspicious activity....
Well everyone that has heard or read or seen the story on TV knows now the place is and has been crawling with undecover cops...
Certainly everyone wants to drink & party in places where they know the undercover state cops hang around...they are also the policing unit for the Liquor Control Board that regulates and inforces drinking violations...GREAT...
They can see them drinking and follow them to the parking lot and watch them leave..CAN WE SAY DUI STOP...
Seriously, only idiots will show up to this job now...& I'll be one of them...
Idiots and water drinkers...
I may as well kill myself now because this job is just about toast.
The chase started when UNDERCOVER state police approached the guy in the parking lot for suspicious activity....
Well everyone that has heard or read or seen the story on TV knows now the place is and has been crawling with undecover cops...
Certainly everyone wants to drink & party in places where they know the undercover state cops hang around...they are also the policing unit for the Liquor Control Board that regulates and inforces drinking violations...GREAT...
They can see them drinking and follow them to the parking lot and watch them leave..CAN WE SAY DUI STOP...
Seriously, only idiots will show up to this job now...& I'll be one of them...
Idiots and water drinkers...
Yes this is the same hotel that is related to the cop shooting suspect.
Which goes back to what I said about at least 50% of the occupancy of a lower room rate hotel could be criminally involved in suspicious activity.
There are some major construction projects going on in the immediate area so many of the workers are staying here. From time to time they will show up and party.
On my last bad sunday night on my way home I drove past another karaoke/name that tune bar.....the place was pretty busy. Just so happens a guy that used to work for me was there...he came in last night which was a busy night for me. I mentioned to him about the other bar being busy sunday. He said he was there to check it out and everyone was all dressed in black with lots of tats and body jewlery going on. He said it was real goth....He left because he wasn't getting a warm and fuzzy feeling. I'm going to guess the police may start hanging around there too.
People that go that route have issues with self esteem or something...so I'm glad they picked that place to hang out..This bar was a really nice place until the parents retired and the kids took over.
As far as the hotel gig....the reputation and condition of the hotel has been in a downward swing. It's now owned by (India) Indians and I expect the decline to continue. The guys running the place have been very good to me as far as paying full money almost every night. I have left there early a few nights from lack of participation.
It's nonsmoking and there really hasn't been any problems inside the bar from anyone for a long, long time. Things just keep happening connected to the hotel and the front parking lot/main enterance not the bar, which is located at the back of the hotel with a different parking lot.
I plan on riding out the storm until the new managers call it quits. Or they stop paying. They just put in a lot of money to upgrade the bar/dining area. It's not our fault the riff-raff picks this hotel to stay in and we are connected. I'll see what happens tonight.
Which goes back to what I said about at least 50% of the occupancy of a lower room rate hotel could be criminally involved in suspicious activity.
There are some major construction projects going on in the immediate area so many of the workers are staying here. From time to time they will show up and party.
On my last bad sunday night on my way home I drove past another karaoke/name that tune bar.....the place was pretty busy. Just so happens a guy that used to work for me was there...he came in last night which was a busy night for me. I mentioned to him about the other bar being busy sunday. He said he was there to check it out and everyone was all dressed in black with lots of tats and body jewlery going on. He said it was real goth....He left because he wasn't getting a warm and fuzzy feeling. I'm going to guess the police may start hanging around there too.
People that go that route have issues with self esteem or something...so I'm glad they picked that place to hang out..This bar was a really nice place until the parents retired and the kids took over.
As far as the hotel gig....the reputation and condition of the hotel has been in a downward swing. It's now owned by (India) Indians and I expect the decline to continue. The guys running the place have been very good to me as far as paying full money almost every night. I have left there early a few nights from lack of participation.
It's nonsmoking and there really hasn't been any problems inside the bar from anyone for a long, long time. Things just keep happening connected to the hotel and the front parking lot/main enterance not the bar, which is located at the back of the hotel with a different parking lot.
I plan on riding out the storm until the new managers call it quits. Or they stop paying. They just put in a lot of money to upgrade the bar/dining area. It's not our fault the riff-raff picks this hotel to stay in and we are connected. I'll see what happens tonight.
