Too Many Singers and What to do with Them.

[Bigdog]

Good KJs know everything...

Every KJ runs their rotation as they want to. Some play favorites because they think if they take care of their friends it will look like they have a following. They do but it' s fake following. The smoke and mirrors following doesn't help a bar make money. It hurts them very much.

Knowing you have to depend on someone else to get you to the show would cut you some slack from me if you told me you had to leave because of your designated driver. And the fact that you are blind. I'm not an insensative jerk.

I can understand your frustration in being bumped a few spots. But being bumped an entire rotation isn't the answer. There is too much opportunity for the KJ to play favorites with that. Oops sorry, you just missed the deadline. Oops, you just missed it again.... That could go on all night long.

A consistant rotation policy is still going to be the most fair way of doing it.

I will save your rotation slot even if you didn't give me another slip right away. Most KJs won't do that. I'll even come looking for you to make sure you get to sing when you are supposed to in the spot you had. Most KJs aren't going to look for anyone. I'll go outside and find you smoking. I'll let you know exactly how many more minutes you have to finish smoking so you can get back in for the beginning of your song. Most KJs won't look across the room let alone outside. I personally will hand you the microphone when you're up next. Most KJs won't do that.

I think I am way above other KJs as far as rotation fairness. I very rarely have anyone complain about the way I do it. That makes me feel pretty good about my chosen method. The complainers are the jerks that think they should sing every half hour just because.

If you are going to a KJ that only ever gets 10 singers, I can see why you can't fathom a 2 hour rotation. What's the reason they can't get more singers? Their rotation is unfair and or their system sucks.

I am certain you will find more KJs screwing with the rotation than being fair.

Understand this. I have replaced many KJs that were crowd killers because of the way they ran their rotation. That gets you fired faster than any other single issue. Fair KJs get lots of work. Unfair KJs always struggle for jobs. They haven't made the connection between fairness and making money.

It's in my best interest to be fair to all. You would never know I hated your guts. I would still treat everyone the same. People tend to talk. The more bad stuff they can say about you the more they want to talk about you. The last thing anyone will be able to say about me is I run an unfair rotation.

People get used to my rotation method and it's not a problem. It's pretty easy to see how fair I am.

A few weeks ago a singer got mad at me because I put someone in the rotation right as it was about to start over again. He thought they should go to the back of the line. Well the end of the rotation is the back of the line. This week he happend to be in that exact situation. I put him in because the rotation was about to start over. Funny he didn't complain about that. This guy is a total jerk and my ex wife called him an A&&HOLE to his face. He still got treated just as I would everyone else. He doesn't know I HATE HIS GUTS AND HE'S a FREAKIN' JERK and an A&&HOLE that can't sing.

I'll ask you now....Am I FAIR????

[Blind Gregory]

Is this a trick question?

[Bigdog]

[Blind Gregory]

[Bigdog]

Karaoke shows are for the singers. But the singers aren't the KJs only priority.

Singers have only one priority in mind. THEM

They are pretty selfish.

They don't care if the song they picked is putting everyone else to sleep.

They don't care if others really hate it when they sing.

They don't care if they just ruined the energy of the show.

They don't care what the KJ has to deal with.

As a KJ, I am the MC of the show. The entire success of the evening depends on me.

If there are no singers, it's my fault.

If there are no listeners, it's my fault.

If the bar doesn't make money, it's my fault.

If nobody sounds good, it's my fault.

If nobody has fun, it's my fault.

I have control of the nights outcome.

My needs and wants are totally different than those of the singers.

In order to accomplish my goals I have to take charge.

That includes having a sound system that sounds good. That costs money. My equipment and music investment is way over $70,000. I just ordered some more new equipment to maintain and improve my sound and my reliability.

I run a nonstop show. Without filler music and dance sets. My show is totally geared to singers and singing.

I also have to make sure that every nonsinger in the bar wants to stay and have fun and keep coming back. No singer worries about that.

I want every singer to sing as much as possible every night. But I need the place to fill with people. I need the bar to make money. I need the word of mouth advertising from the singers and nonsingers.

It's up to me to make it fun. I accomplish my goals by running a fair rotation. I try to have some interaction with as many people as possible. I flirt with the girls and joke with the guys. I try to make every singer sound just like the original singer (artist.) I do this by mixing and adding the correct vocal effects.

This is why I don't get a screaming drunk crowd. I attract the more serious and more talented singers. This makes it fun for everyone to be able to be entertained. The music is listenable. That makes it fun. I don't see the fun in having a crowd full of screaming drunks.

The bottom line is....singers are there to entertain themselves and they do this by being able to sing the songs they want to sing. I am there to facilitate this need. But there are many things I have to do as the Master Of Ceremonies that the singers don't know about. Things I need to do to make it all happen in a way that is BEST for the bar and me. While making everyone want to come back week after week and want to tell everyone they run into how much fun it is at the show.

So things that might seem unfair to a minority, are being done for the majority. Not that what I'm doing is unfair because it's not. I have a bigger agenda. That is to be successful at what I do. It involves all the singers, all the nonsingers and the bar owner.

Singers aren't worried about the bar owner. Singers aren't worried about the nonsingers. Singers aren't worried about my next meal. I'm worried about all of it. That's the big picture. I don't expect most singers to even care. But I do. And I have to worry about it every show.

There is much that I do, that I must do the singers will never know or understand. But trust me, at least for me it's neccessary and important.

I'm not in business to keep people from singing.

[Sabrina59]

As a singer I hate it when new people are put in between people rather than at the end. I stopped going to a show for this very reason. Hubby and I walk in together, and will walk out together. I don't want our songs to be 15 - 20 minutes apart. This is especially true of a week-day show. Hubby has to get up early for work. We are there before the show starts to get in the rotation relatively early and we're not going to stay late. I see no reason to split up a couple or have to put a new singer in with the first few singers.

As a KJ there is only one time that I do this. I have a couple at my show weekly. He is retired and is there before the show starts. She comes in after work. When she gets there, she is placed right after her husband in the rotation. I keep couples together, and I keep families together. If a child and parent are both singing, and the child puts up songs after the parent, the child goes in the rotation right after the parent. I honestly believe it is rude to seperate folks that will be leaving at the same time. Other than these examples, new singers go to the back of the rotation.

The KJ at the show I go to on Saturdays will insert new folks in the rotation if it gets to be over 20, but he always keeps couples together.

I realize my show may be a bit different than most of your's. We usually have around 15 folks in the rotation. Not because I have a lousy sound sytem (BD ) and not because I don't know how to use my equipment (BD ), but because it is in a very small establishment. Usually all but a few of the tables are filled. But, even if I had a larger rotation I honestly believe I would keep my rotation rules the same.

As has been stated before, I believe either way is acceptable as long as the KJ is consistant. Karaoke singers are very unforgiving when it comes to the rotation. It had best be fair, or they're going to walk out.

By the way, I had a regular leave early tonight because the rotation was too long ... 20 singers. He's spoiled. I have mixed feelings about a large rotation. It's good for the business but the singers are there to sing. The singers just have to realize that I'll get them up as often as possible within the rules of the rotation.

BD ... ya know I wuv ya!!

[Bigdog]

Sorry but...I deliberately split singers apart.

I have been accused of playing favorites (BY OTHER SINGERS) (STC) because I had 3-4-5-6 people setting at the same table and they all put in song slips. So for MY convienence I let them sing one after another so it would save me some work running the microphones around. I was accused of taking care of their table.

So now ...so I can't be accused (STC) of another imaginary thing that I'm not doing...I have one sing here, then one sings across the room, then one in this corner. It's IGNORANT for someone to accuse me of STUFF I'm not doing. I wouldn't want to appear to be unfair...now would I????

As a side note...most people have to get up for work in the morning, so is that really a good excuse when it applies to everyone..almost?

Remember the majority has to have their A&& kissed for the common good.

I still love you (STC) dear..

Again, everything I do has a very good reason from hundreds of years (THOUSANDS OF SHOWS) of experience....that may not be known the average crybaby complainer. There was one in both of the above cases.

Just because you can't or don't understand "THE WHY" doesn't mean I'm wrong.

I heard about it from another KJ that said they HEARD I was playing favorites. Totally FALSE. But that's how things start with one BIG mouth that doesn't think things are going the way THEY think it should be. Take out a loan for $50,000 and do it your way. We will see how long you last... I can take you to the local KJ graveyard. Many have passed into oblivion thinking they had the RIGHT IDEA.

So now I don't look like I'm playing favorites anymore. But there are still singers that will argue about it.

[Blind Gregory]

Karaoke shows are for the singers. But the singers aren't the KJs only priority.

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There is much that I do, that I must do the singers will never know or understand. But trust me, at least for me it's neccessary and important.

I'm not in business to keep people from singing.

So it was a trick question!

Thought so!

But remember: Every rule has its exceptions. Me, for example...

[Bigdog]

Karaoke shows are for the singers. But the singers aren't the KJs only priority.

.
.
.
.
.

There is much that I do, that I must do the singers will never know or understand. But trust me, at least for me it's neccessary and important.

I'm not in business to keep people from singing.

So it was a trick question!

Thought so!

But remember: Every rule has its exceptions. Me, for example...

Elaborate on this because I'm not sure of your meaning.

It's not a trick question, but I'm trying to get singers to recognise that I have things that are more important during a show than just singers singing.

Complainers I don't need. Complaining won't help you sing faster. Too much complaining pi&&es me off and you don't want to do that.

Perfect example tonight. The place was packed. I ended up with 35 singers. 32 at the end of 2 hours. The first rotation. The girl that sang second tonight kept coming up and asking when she would sing again. (2 hours, what part of 2 hours don't you understand?) I kept telling her it would be a good while. Remember 32 singers is a 2 hour rotation. She must have felt that I was picking on her or some imaginary thing. She was giving me mean looks and making some faces and whining. So when it finally comes to her turn I see her putting her coat on. She is going to sing NEXT. She was fighting with her BF or husband about something. Anyway she walked out without singing.

She probably needs medication of some kind. It's not my problem and ask me if I care if I ever see her again. I don't need someone elses drama, whether it's real or imagined. Take your meds and stay home. Don't bring it out to dump on me.

She was getting the EXACT treatment from me as every other singer, nothing more and nothing less. Regardless of whether I have known them for years or it was our first meeting. There were many new people in tonight. I'm sure some of the new singers were not real happy. It's not my fault that 35 singers showed up. Don't make it my fault. I HAD EVERYONE SINGING THEIR SONGS AS FAST AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. No other KJ can do it faster. If that ain't good enough stay home. Sing somewhere else....I don't care, but don't make me have a problem with you. Because I'll get it taken care of and you might not like the outcome. But I will.

If I were playing games and being unfair in any number of ways as done by many other KJs, you would have a bytch. But just because it's happening in your mind doesn't mean it's happening in the real world.

Remember you as a singer are not the only person in the bar. The night doesn't revolve souly around you. You are part of the proceedings. Not the end all.

My job is bigger than you know. The bar's income and mine depend on the overall outcome. I'm not trying to do anything but make us all money. This I accomplish with being as fair as possible to all. I am being paid to make the bar owner money. That is a big responsibility. It shows when they always want me to take a pay cut if they think the night wasn't good enough.

I'm damned if I'm too good and I'm damned if I suck. Someone said it tonight. These people love you. Yes until they don't get to sing as much as they think they should, then they turn on me in a heartbeat.

I don't come to your job and give you a hard time. But I would love to... Remember, this is my JOB. Not my FUN RECREATION THING I DO FOR NOTHING, my job. I take it seriously. Someone giving me a hard time isn't needed or wanted.

You will sing when the time permits. Dictated by the number of total singers in the rotation, NOT BY ME. I'm just lining you all up in an orderly fashion. Based on the total number of singers. Not by who I'm friends with.

[Blind Gregory]

It means that not all singers are as selfish as you think we are.

Granted, I go to karaoke to sing. But I don't complain that I'm not singing enough. In fact, the only complaint I've even made here was about inserting new singers before me in rotations when there's only a handful of singers before me in a rotation instead of putting them at the end of the rotation.

And I encourage people who haven't ever sung karaoke before to give it a try. Last night, for example, I got two people who had never tried it to go up and sing. Both of them are coming back next week and putting in songs.

So what about all that makes me a "whining complainer"? That I voiced the complaint in the first place? Or just that I don't agree with your point of view?

[Bigdog]

It means that not all singers are as selfish as you think we are.

Granted, I go to karaoke to sing. But I don't complain that I'm not singing enough. In fact, the only complaint I've even made here was about inserting new singers before me in rotations when there's only a handful of singers before me in a rotation instead of putting them at the end of the rotation.

And I encourage people who haven't ever sung karaoke before to give it a try. Last night, for example, I got two people who had never tried it to go up and sing. Both of them are coming back next week and putting in songs.

So what about all that makes me a "whining complainer"? That I voiced the complaint in the first place? Or just that I don't agree with your point of view?

My answr was a general answer and not necessarily directed to you personally.

Everybody in the rotation has to follow someone. As long as you and everyone else are treated exactly the same and nobody is singing more than once in any said rotation, what is the problem? I don't insert people to be unfair. I'm trying to keep everyone happy. You would get the same insertion treatment. Would you complain about that? The insertion method takes care of new singers coming in and my problem about where to fit them in. Most people that complain say, why don't they go to the end of the line. Even if they do go to the end of the line, and many do, that still makes the rotation time longer. By doing an insertion, you could actually end up singing sooner because some of those inserted could be put in after you sing. The bottom line is...x amount of singers takes x amount of time and the next rotation you will have to wait that amount of time again.

There is no 100% solution that will make every single singer happy. Remember the majority counts.

If you think very carefully about this...no matter where they go in the rotation they will all be before you. If they get put in right before you, they are before you. If they get put in right after you...technically they are still before your next turn. So every singer is always before every other singer.

[Blind Gregory]

Yup! That sounds fair...

[Bigdog]

It's called a rotation. Rotation means circular spin.

Think of it as a circle. There is no actual beginning and end. Everybody follows somebody every song. Or everybody follows everybody. Or somebody is always before you.

The more singers you have the bigger the circle gets.

Slice it however you want but you still get an equal peice of the pie. Nobody is getting two peices to your one. NO pie hogs at my show.


A little off the subject but it came up earlier.

This happened the other night. TRUE STORY.

During the show I went over to talk to the bouncer. A waitress came over to tell us about a guy in the booth that needed an braille menu...because she said he's deaf... WTF... I just shook my head.

Gives a new meaning to deaf, DUMB (her) and blind.

[Bigdog]

I just read an article (below) about how blind people have a secret. This would explain why my insertion method messes up your karaoke night. It screws up a big reference point. I did have a blind man that came to karaoke with his son. His complaint was that I put everyone in front of him. Also we had over 30 singers that night.

After reading this article I have a better understanding of why you would be bothered by it. It disrupts your minds eye (mental picture) of how things should have progressed. Again the insertion method isn't done as a discriminatory move on my part. It justs works better and I'm always consistant.


Blind People Are 'Serial Memory' Whizzes
ScienceDaily (June 22, 2007) — Compared to people with normal vision, those who were blind at birth tend to have excellent memories. Now, a new study shows that blind individuals are particular whizzes when it comes to remembering things in the right order.

The findings are a good example of the familiar adage that "practice makes perfect" and reveal that mental capabilities may be refined or adjusted in order to compensate for the lack of a sensory input, according to researchers Noa Raz and Ehud Zohary of Hebrew University.

"Our opinion is that the superior serial memory of the blind is most likely a result of practice," Zohary said. "In the absence of vision, the world is experienced as a sequence of events. Since the blind constantly use serial-memory strategies in everyday circumstances, they tend to develop superior skills."

For example, the blind tend to navigate the world by forming "route-like" sequential representations. Blind people also rely on serial-memory strategies to identify otherwise indistinguishable objects, such as different brands of yogurt that vary only in their labeling, the researchers noted. According to their own reports, in order to correctly choose a desired item, the blind typically place objects in a fashioned order and give them ordinal tags, such as "the 3rd item on the left." Thus, a memory for the order in which items are encountered may be especially important for blind people's ability to create mental pictures of a scene.

In the new study, the researchers tested the performance of 19 congenitally blind individuals and individually matched sighted controls in two types of memory tasks: item memory and serial memory. In the item-memory tasks, subjects were asked to identify 20 words from a list they heard. In the serial-memory tasks, subjects had to remember not only the words, but also their ordinal position in the list.

Those who were blind recalled more words than the sighted, indicating a better memory overall, they found. Their greatest advantage, however, was the ability to remember longer word sequences according to their original order.

The blind individuals' remarkable edge in item recall resulted not from a specific advantage in remembering the first words in the list, or the most recent words. Rather, the blind showed a better memory for all of the words, regardless of where they fell. That result suggested that the key to their success may lie in representing item lists as word chains, perhaps by generating associations between adjacent items.

The researchers said they plan to further explore the underlying mental processes responsible for the differences in memory skill by using imaging techniques that measure brain activity.

The researchers include Noa Raz, Ella Striem, Golan Pundak, Tanya Orlov, and Ehud Zohary of Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Israel. This study was funded by the McDonnell Foundation grant #220020046.

Reference: Raz et al.: "Superior Serial Memory in the Blind: A Case of Cognitive Compensatory Adjustment." Publishing in Current Biology 17, 1--5, July 3, 2007. DOI 10.1016/j.cub.2007.05.060.

So you are memorizing the rotation as it happens and whenever I insert someone new ..... The only way I can keep the rotation straight is to have the slips with names on them laying in a line on my table.

[Blind Gregory]

Yup! My secret is out! Most of my world and how I relate to it is memory tricks!

It also answers the question I get so often when I perform: How do I sing karaoke if I can't read the lyrics?

I usually answer that one "Pretty well, I think!"

Obviously, I don't sing songs that I don't already know by heart. That's why the sudden problems I'm having with my computer not being able to play rhe MP3s in my karaoke zipfiles (which I wrote about in another topic) is such a problem for me.

Maybe that is part of why it bothers me when the rotation gets changed by putting singers in front of me. But it can only be part of the reason because it only bothers me when I've got like 5 singers ahead of me. Especially if I check with the KJ about it so I can go out to have a cigarette (which he knows is what I'm doing. I don't want him to have to come look for me..

Coming back after having a cigarette only to find out that now there's more like 10 singers ahead of me is what I've been complaining about from the beginning.

For some reason, even though I do understand the KJ point of view about it (from personal experience, amongst other things), I just don't see that as being fair.

One other thing to consider...

I'm not the only singer who is bothered by getting "bumped back" by new singers when they're close to the front of the "line", so to speak. None of us complains about it to the KJ very much, but we do complain about it amongst ourselves occasionally.

If we're not somewhere close to performing when the rotation gets changed, it's not really a problem.