Here's the story.
Last night I had a low rotation at the begining of the night. Bob was there when I got there to set up. He usually has a handful of people wih him.
He sang every half hour for the first hour and a half. Then the rotation started to grow. Bob sang a song and then told me he wanted to sing My Way by Frank. So I put it in the rotation. At least a half hour after Bob told me that, Walter, a new singer came up and wanted to do My Way. He would be singing it 15 minutes before Bob. I put Walter at the end of the rotation and Bob was the #1 singer. So I asked Bob if he minded if Walter could sing My Way as his first song. Bob wasn't happy but he finally agreed. But he asked me if Walter could sing it good. Bob's friends requested Bob sing My Way for them.
So Walter sings My Way and Bob obviously didn't think it was all that good and he appeared to be mad about it.
Here is the question.
When or how long does a singer get to keep the song they want to sing next if someone else wants to sing it before they get to?
I can't possibly reserve songs for people all night long. Now both Bob and Walter don't fill out slips they just come up and tell me. Many times people will change their song before it's their turn to sing. And many times after I have told someone sombody else was singing that song they changed their mind and sang someting else. I hope you can follow this.
The rotation got up to 20 or so. Now I also have people that give me 4-5 slips at a time. Which is fine. They have them in the order they want to sing them. But here again many times a song that is down in the pile will be requested by another singer. I usually let the second singer sing it since it was down the list of the first singer. Meaning just because they gave me a pile of slips doesn't mean all their songs are reserved.
So how do you handle multiple requests for the same song?
How much time should hold a song for someone. Like Bob gave me his song almost 45 minutes before Walter. But Walter was a new singer that was going to sing before Bob and Bob already sang at least 3 songs.
I try very hard to be equally fair to everyone. I think Bob ended up being mad at me. But he told me to let Walter sing it. But he was reluctant in doing so. Maybe he just did it because I asked him to, in a way.
I probably should have told Walter it was too late because someone else had it in already.
I also feel that if you wanted to sing the song first you should have been here early.
If I have it already queued up under Bobs name, is it his song even if it won't come up for over an hour? What about and hour and a half. What about 2 hours? For a singer that will be up way before Bob.
What if you know Bob only sings 3 songs does that matter?
What about new singers entering the rotation with their first song?
I'll play songs over again during the night that isn't an issue. But Bob was clearly mad.
Should I have even asked Bob to let Walter sing it?
How long is a song in the queue reserved?
Singers/songs
My rule is very straightforward.
"First come, first served!"
If someone comes up and requests a song already in the playlist, then he/she has to pick another tune.
I also have no time for the "that's my song" type of singer, who gets upset if the one and only song they ever sing has been put up by someone else.. As far as I'm concerned, it's a Karaoke and anybody can sing anything on my song list.
Surely that's the whole point of a rotation?
Everyone gets a fair crack of the whip!
It never ceases to amaze me also, how many people come into a pub with half an hour to Karaoke shutdown and think they can just step up to the mike, immediately.
In your situation above, you had My Way queued up for Bob, so in my humble opinion, the song's his, not the other guy.
Sandy
"First come, first served!"
If someone comes up and requests a song already in the playlist, then he/she has to pick another tune.
I also have no time for the "that's my song" type of singer, who gets upset if the one and only song they ever sing has been put up by someone else.. As far as I'm concerned, it's a Karaoke and anybody can sing anything on my song list.
Surely that's the whole point of a rotation?
Everyone gets a fair crack of the whip!
It never ceases to amaze me also, how many people come into a pub with half an hour to Karaoke shutdown and think they can just step up to the mike, immediately.
In your situation above, you had My Way queued up for Bob, so in my humble opinion, the song's his, not the other guy.
Sandy
I'm with Mnementh on this one. Nobody owns the song in reality other than the original artist. If bob were to ask for Faithfully first he would get it no matter who else requested it. Unless Steve Perry were to walk in and ask to sing it then it's HIS song. In reality The songs are in my collection and that means I decide who sings it and I've decided to allow whoever put it in first to sing it. Now if the new requester is there a couple of hours later and the original singer has left, I might consider allowing him to sing it too depending on the length of the song and how many people I have waiting to sing.
If it's in the que I won't take it out period.
If it's in the que I won't take it out period.
Mines a different approach. It goes like this:
"Bob's already signed up for that one in this rotation. If you REALLY want to sing it, I'll put you in for it, but I've noticed that the people repeating a song usually don't get as good of a response even when they sing it better than the first person."
If they don't have an immediate alternate choice, I'll assure them I'll keep their spot in the rotation, and they can let me know when they make up their mind.
I'll never tell them "No," but I won't hesitate to use someone's ego to encourage them to change their mind
[edit: thanks for the edit button back, wiseguy! Now a can fix my fractured syntax!]
"Bob's already signed up for that one in this rotation. If you REALLY want to sing it, I'll put you in for it, but I've noticed that the people repeating a song usually don't get as good of a response even when they sing it better than the first person."
If they don't have an immediate alternate choice, I'll assure them I'll keep their spot in the rotation, and they can let me know when they make up their mind.
I'll never tell them "No," but I won't hesitate to use someone's ego to encourage them to change their mind
[edit: thanks for the edit button back, wiseguy! Now a can fix my fractured syntax!]
Last week, I went to Philadelphia, but it was closed.
Dittomnementh wrote:My rule is very straightforward.
"First come, first served!"
If someone comes up and requests a song already in the playlist, then he/she has to pick another tune.
I also have no time for the "that's my song" type of singer, who gets upset if the one and only song they ever sing has been put up by someone else.. As far as I'm concerned, it's a Karaoke and anybody can sing anything on my song list.
Surely that's the whole point of a rotation?
Everyone gets a fair crack of the whip!
It never ceases to amaze me also, how many people come into a pub with half an hour to Karaoke shutdown and think they can just step up to the mike, immediately.
In your situation above, you had My Way queued up for Bob, so in my humble opinion, the song's his, not the other guy.
Sandy
Does it matter how long the rotation is?
Would it matter that Bob isn't singing for 2 hours?
Bob tells me he wants to sing My Way. The rotation is 2 hours. Before his turn comes someone else wants to sing My Way.
5 minutes before Bob sings My Way, he changes his mind and wants to sing Poker Face. What about the person that wanted to sing My Way an hour ago? I told them Bob was singing it.
I look like a jerk and a liar. The person that wanted to sing My Way gets pissed at me. Bob is the only one happy.
If Bob's song is in the 2 hour queue can he change his mind 5 minutes before he sings?
Would it matter that Bob isn't singing for 2 hours?
Bob tells me he wants to sing My Way. The rotation is 2 hours. Before his turn comes someone else wants to sing My Way.
5 minutes before Bob sings My Way, he changes his mind and wants to sing Poker Face. What about the person that wanted to sing My Way an hour ago? I told them Bob was singing it.
I look like a jerk and a liar. The person that wanted to sing My Way gets pissed at me. Bob is the only one happy.
If Bob's song is in the 2 hour queue can he change his mind 5 minutes before he sings?
For the most part, I don't care if the whole rotation wants to head-bang on the same selection. It's up to them.
(Actually, I think I'd like to see/hear that happen just once. I think it would be fun to have 15 or so singers get up and sing My Way; I'm laughing just thinking about it)
However if someone duplicates a request, I do advise them that they may sing it if they want, but someone has the same number in before them. Then it's their decision.
Now what usually happens is that if a singer hears his/her selection sung by someone else, they usually request a change to their selection.
Just my opinion and observation; your mileage may vary.
(Actually, I think I'd like to see/hear that happen just once. I think it would be fun to have 15 or so singers get up and sing My Way; I'm laughing just thinking about it)
However if someone duplicates a request, I do advise them that they may sing it if they want, but someone has the same number in before them. Then it's their decision.
Now what usually happens is that if a singer hears his/her selection sung by someone else, they usually request a change to their selection.
Just my opinion and observation; your mileage may vary.
I'll play the same song all night too, but Bob got mad when someone else sang the song he put in 2 hours ago.
That's the problem. Does putting a song in over an hour ago save it for your turn, exclusively? Why come early if you can't sing a song you turned in as your request?
Frank just walks in and sings the song you put in an hour ago. Fair to either one?
That's the problem. Does putting a song in over an hour ago save it for your turn, exclusively? Why come early if you can't sing a song you turned in as your request?
Frank just walks in and sings the song you put in an hour ago. Fair to either one?
To be fair it should be first come first served, meaning if Bob put it first he has dibs on the song. It does not matter when he sings it. Frank will just have to pick a different song if he really wants to sing. At least that's how I see it coming from Bob's view. Frank should, if he has any intelligence, see that he would want that too if the roles were reversed.
It's an interesting scenario but I, for one, would love to have it with a two hour rotation.Bigdog wrote:Does it matter how long the rotation is?
No! If you have a two hour rotation, you MUST be doing something right!
Would it matter that Bob isn't singing for 2 hours?
Again, no!
Bob tells me he wants to sing My Way. The rotation is 2 hours. Before his turn comes someone else wants to sing My Way.
As before, tell them someone else already has that song in the rotation.
5 minutes before Bob sings My Way, he changes his mind and wants to sing Poker Face. What about the person that wanted to sing My Way an hour ago? I told them Bob was singing it.
Tell the second person that they can have "My Way" now, if he/she wants it as the initial requester has changed his/her mind.
I look like a jerk and a liar. The person that wanted to sing My Way gets pissed at me. Bob is the only one happy.
You only look like a jerk and a liar if you don't explain the situation and while I realise this might not be easy with some inebriated punters, all you can do is your best. Idiots will always be idiots! There's not a lot you'll be able to do with them.
If Bob's song is in the 2 hour queue can he change his mind 5 minutes before he sings?
Basically that's up to you. You could stick to your guns and tell him it's "My Way" (no pun intended) or he goes back in the rotation for another two hours. He won't be happy but as you've said, no matter what you do, somebody is going to be cheesed off. You just have to try and create mimimum grief.
Sandy
Then that's Bob's problem.Bigdog wrote:I'll play the same song all night too, but Bob got mad when someone else sang the song he put in 2 hours ago.
That's the problem. Does putting a song in over an hour ago save it for your turn, exclusively? Why come early if you can't sing a song you turned in as your request?
Frank just walks in and sings the song you put in an hour ago. Fair to either one?
Unless you feel bob could somehow jeopardize your gig there, I wouldn't give it a second thought. I'm surprised you’re so concerned about it.
I know you wouldn't let anyone tell you how to run your show (as you've stated in the past) so don't let this guy give you cause to second guess your procedures.
I happen to agree with JR. Stick with what you have been doing and don't let anyone force you to change policies. One way or the other one of them is going to be upset. Personally I would rather tick Frank after Bob has handed the song in than Bob. If Bob backs off two hours later you can change the next song for Frank to what he wanted in the first place.
I want to make everyone as happy as I can.
Saving a song for over an hour and then having them change their mind 5 minutes before they sing, isn't right.
If someone expects to reserve a song for an hour then they should also expect to sing it no matter what.
I've always been very easy with my request policies. If you just want to tell me your song, I put it in and make a slip with your name on it. If you want to change your song, because you think a different song will go over better I'll change it. I have a few that change their songs all night long. I change them. Even as late as 30 seconds or less before they sing.
If Bob and Frank walk in at the same time and they are both in the rotation all night long, one or the other could still want to sing a song that the other has just put in. One of them comes up before the other. I usually give the song to the person that will be singing first. Meaning the latter will have to pick another song or sing the same one again on their turn.
If people are going to expect me to reserve their song for over an hour then they shouldn't be changing their mind 5 minutes before their turn. They can't have it both ways. Someone will always end up being upset because someone else is singing their song. That's one of the reasons I'll play repeats. People want to sing and hear their favorite song and it doesn't matter to many if someone else just sang it.
I may have to enforce the if you resreve it, you sing it policy. No changing your mind once it's in the queue. I'm not crazy about it. I'll have to think about it a little more.
I figure Bob won't be back for at least a month, he'll be thumb sucking and pouting.
You can never make everyone totally happy all the time.
Saving a song for over an hour and then having them change their mind 5 minutes before they sing, isn't right.
If someone expects to reserve a song for an hour then they should also expect to sing it no matter what.
I've always been very easy with my request policies. If you just want to tell me your song, I put it in and make a slip with your name on it. If you want to change your song, because you think a different song will go over better I'll change it. I have a few that change their songs all night long. I change them. Even as late as 30 seconds or less before they sing.
If Bob and Frank walk in at the same time and they are both in the rotation all night long, one or the other could still want to sing a song that the other has just put in. One of them comes up before the other. I usually give the song to the person that will be singing first. Meaning the latter will have to pick another song or sing the same one again on their turn.
If people are going to expect me to reserve their song for over an hour then they shouldn't be changing their mind 5 minutes before their turn. They can't have it both ways. Someone will always end up being upset because someone else is singing their song. That's one of the reasons I'll play repeats. People want to sing and hear their favorite song and it doesn't matter to many if someone else just sang it.
I may have to enforce the if you resreve it, you sing it policy. No changing your mind once it's in the queue. I'm not crazy about it. I'll have to think about it a little more.
I figure Bob won't be back for at least a month, he'll be thumb sucking and pouting.
You can never make everyone totally happy all the time.
yeah that is correct that you can't make everybody happy. I just choose to favor the one who already put it in and I let my singers know that is my policy. I don't stop them from singing the song but inform them that if they still want to sing it later then it will be in their que and that Bob has first dibs on the song. I went to a show where they actually reserved songs for late comers. My ex-wife and I went to the show once and if my voice was up to snuff, I was fighting a bad throat thing so I chose lower keyed songs but my ex-wife wanted to do "Close my eyes forever" and I couldn't sing it with her. She got told that it was already in. I watched the person that sang the song walk in minutes before she was called up and sang the song. I don't reserve songs other than the ones that the person there puts in as a request to sing.
I have to agree with most of the posters. The person who puts the song in first is the person it is "reserved" for. If they change their mind, I ask the second person who requested it if they would still like to sing it.
However, if the first person who signed up for the song is a regular and has plenty of other songs in their repetoire, I would ask them if they mind if the other person sings it. Since Bob agreed, he shouldn't have pouted about it.
I differ from a lot of you in that I do not allow a song to be done twice in the same night. I have made an exception to this rule when the person who sang it first has already left and it has been a while since they sang it.
I absolutely will NOT reserve a song for a regular if they are not there. I stopped going to a place because the KJ did something similiar. I had a song up, and it had been up for a while. It was my next song. Then in waltzes a regular. He not only put her in the rotation in front of me, but he gave her my song to do. I went up, collected my discs, and told the KJ we would not be back.
However, if the first person who signed up for the song is a regular and has plenty of other songs in their repetoire, I would ask them if they mind if the other person sings it. Since Bob agreed, he shouldn't have pouted about it.
I differ from a lot of you in that I do not allow a song to be done twice in the same night. I have made an exception to this rule when the person who sang it first has already left and it has been a while since they sang it.
I absolutely will NOT reserve a song for a regular if they are not there. I stopped going to a place because the KJ did something similiar. I had a song up, and it had been up for a while. It was my next song. Then in waltzes a regular. He not only put her in the rotation in front of me, but he gave her my song to do. I went up, collected my discs, and told the KJ we would not be back.
Sabrina the Cat
