.....
This is the first time I've heard of anyone "streaming" karaoke music. Most just download the songs to a hard drive.
You are going to have to be able to prove that your competition's illegal music library is directly causing you loss of income. Just proving that their songs were illegally obtained could be difficult. You'll most likely just end up with a lot of frustration and legal bills.
You could report these unethical KJs to organizations like the KIAA but don't hold you breath waiting for them to do anything. I'm not sure that they even can do anything.
You are going to have to be able to prove that your competition's illegal music library is directly causing you loss of income. Just proving that their songs were illegally obtained could be difficult. You'll most likely just end up with a lot of frustration and legal bills.
You could report these unethical KJs to organizations like the KIAA but don't hold you breath waiting for them to do anything. I'm not sure that they even can do anything.
I know that the k.j. is streaming from a website called chillzone.com because I had people from my shows ask him. I tried to access the site but was refused entrance because you have to be a member. No matter what I tried, I was denied access. I just wanted to see what I was up against.
Since a local club has hired this k.j., my regulars no longer come to my shows, and as a direct result, my performing days have been cut from three times a week to once a week starting this week. Virtaully all my regulars have stopped coming, because he has over 20,000 songs at his finger tips and I can't compete with that buying the music legally. At the fair market prices I would have to spend about $40.000 to compete. I actually believe that I am the last k.j. in my town of over 300,000 peaple to buy music legally.
I did report these activities to the kiaa, and am thinking of sending out letters to the clubs indicating that I have reported the illegal music and that an investigation will result. Perhaps that will scare the clubs into getting rid of the crooks.
I have had no other dealings with the kiaa, so I don't know how active they are, but maybe I can make people believe they are more active than they are.
It just really sucks that the prices for a karaoke show has dropped to what is it now, compared to what is was before people started buying p.c.'s with 20,000 illegal songs on them for $5000.
I have owned and operated my own business now since karaoke first became popular in the early ninties.
It really has gone to the dogs since then.
Since a local club has hired this k.j., my regulars no longer come to my shows, and as a direct result, my performing days have been cut from three times a week to once a week starting this week. Virtaully all my regulars have stopped coming, because he has over 20,000 songs at his finger tips and I can't compete with that buying the music legally. At the fair market prices I would have to spend about $40.000 to compete. I actually believe that I am the last k.j. in my town of over 300,000 peaple to buy music legally.
I did report these activities to the kiaa, and am thinking of sending out letters to the clubs indicating that I have reported the illegal music and that an investigation will result. Perhaps that will scare the clubs into getting rid of the crooks.
I have had no other dealings with the kiaa, so I don't know how active they are, but maybe I can make people believe they are more active than they are.
It just really sucks that the prices for a karaoke show has dropped to what is it now, compared to what is was before people started buying p.c.'s with 20,000 illegal songs on them for $5000.
I have owned and operated my own business now since karaoke first became popular in the early ninties.
It really has gone to the dogs since then.
Unfair business practices????
Do you mean they instantly download the songs requested?
A few years ago I was surrounded by many loaded hard drive KJs. Most have already faded away. They think all that's needed is just a lot of karaoke music. They won't spend the money for a decent sound system. They don't have the committment level required to build a successful business.
They do drive down our fees and generally drag down the quality of karaoke shows. Leading many bar owners to think all KJs are only worth $75 to 100 a night.
I agree that you will probably waste a lot of money trying to get any results.
Most of these people think they can make easy money doing karaoke. We all know it's not so easy or cheap. Give them some time to really find out what it takes to last 15 years. Most won't last one. It's frustrating but just know you have the upper hand, keep doing your high quality show. Be better than them.
The ones around me constantly get and lose jobs. That is the indicator to their lack of ability to do what is really required to be a quality KJ.
Too cheap to pay for music is too cheap to buy a quality system. So far it hasn't affected my ability to work steady. It has kept my pay scale lower than it should be. But 99.9 % of them work for way less money.
Do you mean they instantly download the songs requested?
A few years ago I was surrounded by many loaded hard drive KJs. Most have already faded away. They think all that's needed is just a lot of karaoke music. They won't spend the money for a decent sound system. They don't have the committment level required to build a successful business.
They do drive down our fees and generally drag down the quality of karaoke shows. Leading many bar owners to think all KJs are only worth $75 to 100 a night.
I agree that you will probably waste a lot of money trying to get any results.
Most of these people think they can make easy money doing karaoke. We all know it's not so easy or cheap. Give them some time to really find out what it takes to last 15 years. Most won't last one. It's frustrating but just know you have the upper hand, keep doing your high quality show. Be better than them.
The ones around me constantly get and lose jobs. That is the indicator to their lack of ability to do what is really required to be a quality KJ.
Too cheap to pay for music is too cheap to buy a quality system. So far it hasn't affected my ability to work steady. It has kept my pay scale lower than it should be. But 99.9 % of them work for way less money.
I have 12,000 one-of-a-kind songs and people are always telling me I have a nice selection of songs. I constantly buy songs people request and newly released songs to keep current.
If you are losing established jobs to them, they must be giving the bar owners a huge money break.
You run the risk of making the bar owners hate you. They might think you are hurting their business.
If you are losing established jobs to them, they must be giving the bar owners a huge money break.
You run the risk of making the bar owners hate you. They might think you are hurting their business.
The way I understand it, the singer requests the songs and the k.j. goes online and retrieves it from a karaoke song sharing site, much the same as limewire. It contains songs from thousands of k.j.'s who pool their resources and share music. If one k.j. buys a song and downloads it to this website, it is instantly available to all the k.j.'s logged on to the site. Much the same as limewire again, and just as legal.
It is hard to compete with the data bases of thousands of k.j.'s nationwide. That is also the reason that soundchoice only sold 800 copies of the newest karaoke cd, but it is on thousands of k.j.'s menus around the u.s.a.
We all know that no matter how good your show is, if you don't have the music, you are at a loss. The worst feeling is having a customer come up and ask if you have this song, because the other guy does and having to tell them "no I don't have this song, but I will try to get it for you." The problem is they are there now wanting to sing the song, and by the time you get it legally, it is usually too late.
It is hard to compete with the data bases of thousands of k.j.'s nationwide. That is also the reason that soundchoice only sold 800 copies of the newest karaoke cd, but it is on thousands of k.j.'s menus around the u.s.a.
We all know that no matter how good your show is, if you don't have the music, you are at a loss. The worst feeling is having a customer come up and ask if you have this song, because the other guy does and having to tell them "no I don't have this song, but I will try to get it for you." The problem is they are there now wanting to sing the song, and by the time you get it legally, it is usually too late.
I think there are a few KJs around here that can download songs instantly.
I actually edit my songbooks so there are many songs I don't have. They find something else to sing or they don't come back.
I know I will never be able to have a song to please every singer. I don't even try. I get what I can.
I stopped singing karaoke at other shows because they all suck. That's how bad most of my competition is.
I actually edit my songbooks so there are many songs I don't have. They find something else to sing or they don't come back.
I know I will never be able to have a song to please every singer. I don't even try. I get what I can.
I stopped singing karaoke at other shows because they all suck. That's how bad most of my competition is.
chillzone.com is just a temporary parking page for the domain name and not a functional site. I wouldn't expect these people to tell the truth about where they're getting the songs. One thing I'm certain of is that they are not streaming them. Streaming them would mean that they are playing them in real time right from an online stream server and not actually saving them to the hard drive. My guess is that they're downloading them from a file sharing channel on an IRC network.
There are legal ways to obtain songs during a show. You could simply go to TriceraSoft (just to name one site) and legally purchase songs that you can then play instantly.
As Bigdog said, you don't want the bar owners to dislike you. Sending out threatening letters would do just that and you would be shooting yourself in the foot. And sending out letters pretending to be the KIAA, or anyone else other than yourself, would be fraud and a felony using the U.S. Postal Service.
Many people are quick to assume that anyone who hosts their shows from a laptop, and have over 20,000 songs, are probably using pirated music. I have well over 20,00 songs and every one is legally purchased but I'll be damned if I want to have to go through some process of proving it every time I book a new place. That's exactly what's going to happen if the bar owners all get spooked.
Being that you have been in the business for 15 years I would think that you would have a very large selection of karaoke music and only need to do periodic updates of the newer stuff.
There are legal ways to obtain songs during a show. You could simply go to TriceraSoft (just to name one site) and legally purchase songs that you can then play instantly.
As Bigdog said, you don't want the bar owners to dislike you. Sending out threatening letters would do just that and you would be shooting yourself in the foot. And sending out letters pretending to be the KIAA, or anyone else other than yourself, would be fraud and a felony using the U.S. Postal Service.
Many people are quick to assume that anyone who hosts their shows from a laptop, and have over 20,000 songs, are probably using pirated music. I have well over 20,00 songs and every one is legally purchased but I'll be damned if I want to have to go through some process of proving it every time I book a new place. That's exactly what's going to happen if the bar owners all get spooked.
Being that you have been in the business for 15 years I would think that you would have a very large selection of karaoke music and only need to do periodic updates of the newer stuff.
Have to solidly agree 100% with Wiseguy here.
I've also just had a look at www.chillzone.com and as Wiseguy says, it seems to have absolutely nothing to do with Karaoke, it's simply a hosting site for other people.
As for downloaded Karaoke songs, as also stated above, it's easy to get songs online legally, as well as illegally. It all depends on your audience and if you can get the one song they are clamouring for withing a few minutes, who is to say that wouldn't keep that audience with YOU rather than them drifting away, elsewhere?
In my Karaoke catchment, there is one couple who KJ and they have resisted changing to PC use and stick rigidly to discs and good luck to them.
They charge top dollar (Pounds, that is
) and do not seem to have a problem getting jobs or followers. Considering this is in an area rife with cost cutting laptop operators, they are a great representation of the job.
sandy
I've also just had a look at www.chillzone.com and as Wiseguy says, it seems to have absolutely nothing to do with Karaoke, it's simply a hosting site for other people.
As for downloaded Karaoke songs, as also stated above, it's easy to get songs online legally, as well as illegally. It all depends on your audience and if you can get the one song they are clamouring for withing a few minutes, who is to say that wouldn't keep that audience with YOU rather than them drifting away, elsewhere?
In my Karaoke catchment, there is one couple who KJ and they have resisted changing to PC use and stick rigidly to discs and good luck to them.
They charge top dollar (Pounds, that is
) and do not seem to have a problem getting jobs or followers. Considering this is in an area rife with cost cutting laptop operators, they are a great representation of the job.sandy
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spotlightjr
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:36 pm
- Location: southwest Florida
Yeah, it's happening down here in Fla. too. If I had to guess I would say about 80% of the kj's in my area are pirates. They all boast of having 100,000 songs on their websites, etc. It's pretty annoying and has definitely brought down the price of paying gigs.
Bigdog is right on about quality. Most of the pirates have crap sound systems and some dont even have books (weird) to look at. Hell, I've seen on ebay and craigs list where you can buy loaded hard drives with 100,000 karaoke songs and 100,000 dj songs for under a thousand bucs.
It really pisses me off that these bastards can do this and get away with it. This is where the REAL problem lies and the KIAA or whoever needs to target these scumbags.
I recently lost a gig to someone who undercut me and has an illegal hard drive. I know he's illegal because he has over 120000 songs. THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO LEGALLY!
However, I also just picked up another gig down the road so things evened out this time. I have noticed that the price these venues are willing to pay has come down significantly in the last six months or so.
That has to be a direct result of these pirates doing it for peanuts.
I'm still working 4 nights a week doing something I really enjoy. Bring it on PIRATE!!!
Bigdog is right on about quality. Most of the pirates have crap sound systems and some dont even have books (weird) to look at. Hell, I've seen on ebay and craigs list where you can buy loaded hard drives with 100,000 karaoke songs and 100,000 dj songs for under a thousand bucs.
It really pisses me off that these bastards can do this and get away with it. This is where the REAL problem lies and the KIAA or whoever needs to target these scumbags.
I recently lost a gig to someone who undercut me and has an illegal hard drive. I know he's illegal because he has over 120000 songs. THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO LEGALLY!
However, I also just picked up another gig down the road so things evened out this time. I have noticed that the price these venues are willing to pay has come down significantly in the last six months or so.
That has to be a direct result of these pirates doing it for peanuts.
I'm still working 4 nights a week doing something I really enjoy. Bring it on PIRATE!!!
There is an old saying that says the cream always rises to the top.
The pirates around here come and go. Most have fallen by the way side. Sure they work cheap, but they normally can't deliver the crowd. So the bar owner gets a good deal on the KJ, but he loses all his customers. Good business practices...
Over the years I have replaced many crappy KJs and got paid more money to do it. I have never worked for the fees they have charged.
I have lost jobs to other KJs. I suspect they made a deal to take less money than me. 99% of the time the crowd was totally lost in 1 month. Within 6 months the cheap KJ was gone too.
Bar owners get what they deserve for STUPID business decisions. Getting a bargin KJ NEVER WORKS. And bar owners NEVER learn until it's too late.
So my advice is to hang in there and do a better show, charge more money and you will make it.
The pirates around here come and go. Most have fallen by the way side. Sure they work cheap, but they normally can't deliver the crowd. So the bar owner gets a good deal on the KJ, but he loses all his customers. Good business practices...
Over the years I have replaced many crappy KJs and got paid more money to do it.
I have never worked for the fees they have charged.I have lost jobs to other KJs. I suspect they made a deal to take less money than me. 99% of the time the crowd was totally lost in 1 month. Within 6 months the cheap KJ was gone too.
Bar owners get what they deserve for STUPID business decisions. Getting a bargin KJ NEVER WORKS. And bar owners NEVER learn until it's too late.
So my advice is to hang in there and do a better show, charge more money and you will make it.
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spotlightjr
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:36 pm
- Location: southwest Florida
I will not do any gig for under 200.00. I work too damn hard to charge any less. With setup and tear down plus website work, facebook, myspace, etc. were talking 6 to7 hours per show.
I get really bothered sometimes when I lose a gig to an undercutting pirate but there's no better feeling than when the idiot owner/manager call you back begging for your services. It's happened to me twice and I've only been in the business for a little over a year. Both times I've declined the invitation out of other obligations (spite as well)
I know with the economy the way it is its not always feasible to turn down these jerks but fortunately I have a full time job to pay my bills, etc. I do karaoke for the money but I also do it for the joy it brings me. I will not work for idiots and I will not lower my fee to be "competitve" like venue owners have suggested.
I will wait it out like Bigdog says and watch the pirates fall by the wayside.
P.S. I went to the place where the undercutting pirate took my place and literally started laughing out loud. This guy has 120000 plus songs and two "kenwood" home speakers hooked up to an alesis mixer. The sound is absolutely horrible. This douche bag charges half what I was charging and doesnt even deserve that. No song books and cheesy vocopro mics.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!
I get really bothered sometimes when I lose a gig to an undercutting pirate but there's no better feeling than when the idiot owner/manager call you back begging for your services. It's happened to me twice and I've only been in the business for a little over a year. Both times I've declined the invitation out of other obligations (spite as well)
I know with the economy the way it is its not always feasible to turn down these jerks but fortunately I have a full time job to pay my bills, etc. I do karaoke for the money but I also do it for the joy it brings me. I will not work for idiots and I will not lower my fee to be "competitve" like venue owners have suggested.
I will wait it out like Bigdog says and watch the pirates fall by the wayside.
P.S. I went to the place where the undercutting pirate took my place and literally started laughing out loud. This guy has 120000 plus songs and two "kenwood" home speakers hooked up to an alesis mixer. The sound is absolutely horrible. This douche bag charges half what I was charging and doesnt even deserve that. No song books and cheesy vocopro mics.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!
I hear you there, been there and done that!!!!!!!!
spotlightjr wrote:I will not do any gig for under 200.00. I work too damn hard to charge any less. With setup and tear down plus website work, facebook, myspace, etc. were talking 6 to7 hours per show.
I get really bothered sometimes when I lose a gig to an undercutting pirate but there's no better feeling than when the idiot owner/manager call you back begging for your services. It's happened to me twice and I've only been in the business for a little over a year. Both times I've declined the invitation out of other obligations (spite as well)
I know with the economy the way it is its not always feasible to turn down these jerks but fortunately I have a full time job to pay my bills, etc. I do karaoke for the money but I also do it for the joy it brings me. I will not work for idiots and I will not lower my fee to be "competitve" like venue owners have suggested.
I will wait it out like Bigdog says and watch the pirates fall by the wayside.
P.S. I went to the place where the undercutting pirate took my place and literally started laughing out loud. This guy has 120000 plus songs and two "kenwood" home speakers hooked up to an alesis mixer. The sound is absolutely horrible. This douche bag charges half what I was charging and doesnt even deserve that. No song books and cheesy vocopro mics.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!
Being fired from a bar is very embarrassing. Especially because of the price, not based on your performance.
I have quit jobs and been fired. Many times I have been called back. Depending on the situation some I returned to and some I didn't.
If a stupid bar owner calls you back it means, they found out you were worth your pay. And secondly it means your worth just went up. Supply and demand. You could raise your price some (I call it a penalty for being stupid fee) because you are worth more to them now. It's only fair. Would you work for the old bar owner for more money?
You get satisfaction for knowing you are good at your craft and you get satisfaction knowing you taught the bar owner a valuable lesson. STUPID doesn't pay and you get what you pay for. Cheap KJs are like a get rich scheme. Sounds to good to be true. Actually they usually "sound" horrible.
I have quit jobs and been fired. Many times I have been called back. Depending on the situation some I returned to and some I didn't.
If a stupid bar owner calls you back it means, they found out you were worth your pay. And secondly it means your worth just went up. Supply and demand. You could raise your price some (I call it a penalty for being stupid fee) because you are worth more to them now. It's only fair. Would you work for the old bar owner for more money?
You get satisfaction for knowing you are good at your craft and you get satisfaction knowing you taught the bar owner a valuable lesson. STUPID doesn't pay and you get what you pay for. Cheap KJs are like a get rich scheme. Sounds to good to be true. Actually they usually "sound" horrible.
