Couple of questions about shows

[KnoxvilleKaraoke]

I was in a bar in Nashville that does karaoke 7 nights a week with in house kj's. They claim to have over 160K songs and they use a computer system. They do not have song books they tell you to just turn in a song and they will have it. I was just curious about a few things.

1. Does anyone else have that size library? I am not even close.
2. Do they have all the disc for that many songs? 1:1 deal.
3. Does anyone else not use song books? I have 6.
4. Their rotation was based on a "tip" system. Large tips got you bumped up. Does anyone else do this? I very seldom even take tips.

They had a heck of a crowd but were obviously playing favorites to regulars as some sang 3 or 4 times before others got to sing once.

[Bigdog]

It could depend on the actual owners of the music. Since it is a house system and karaoke is their only main form of entertainment 7 nights a week. They could have made the $400,000 investment in karaoke music.

Could have.....do I actually belive that anybody in the US has actually done that? NO

It takes anywhere from $200-400,000 to open a decent bar. Having $400,000 to drop on karaoke music is...well...you figure it out. But doing some quick math...say the average night brings in $1000...that's $7000 a week. $364,000 a year. $1500 a night and you get $442,000 a year.

The KJs I know that have been in business at least 15 years have around 10-14,000 one-of-a-kind songs. Not counting the 10- 12,000 dupes. That size library comes from spending several thousand dollars a years to update.

My library cost me $50,000 and climbing.

I was using 10 song books until someone stole one so now I use 9. That's down from a high of 40 when I first started 17 years ago. But then they were only a little bigger than comic books.

I just had a girl tell me about the KJ she frequents and he runs a tip rotation. She wanted to "tip" me. So she was obviously OK with that idea as I suspect many others are. I personally don't have that kind of money to throw away. I might pay to sing on my system but there aren't many others I would pay to sing on. If my main objective wasn't being fair and had no concern for the bar owner as to whether he made money on me ....and I wanted to make as much money as possible per night, I would do that type of show. Every singer would be there because they wanted to be there. They would also know that money talks and everything else doesn't matter. If the bar owner was OK with it. It does create a different type of crowd and it also keeps many away. An all tip rotation could bring in a lot of money for the KJ.

Since the bar was packed it obviously works pretty well. But you would have to ask is it because they have "every" karaoke song or do they just like paying to be the star of the show?

I live in an area where getting a show full of singers willing to pay to sing would be pretty hard to come by. So I have to build my singer crowd from being fair to each and every one. Maybe if I was downtown it would work. More big shots willing to waste their moeny on showing off. I can't say that I actually know any KJs that run tip rotations. Now they could still take tips to move someone up but it's not normally how they run the rotation.

[Moonrider]

4. Their rotation was based on a "tip" system. Large tips got you bumped up. Does anyone else do this? I very seldom even take tips.

They had a heck of a crowd but were obviously playing favorites to regulars as some sang 3 or 4 times before others got to sing once.

I won't hesitate to take tips given to me because you enjoy my show, but I don't accept or solicit bribes for special treatment. I'd be lynched, and justifiably so. Also, once you've turned your slip in, you will NOT see a single person sing twice before you sing - unless I've made a mistake. If that happens, you get a public apology over the mike.

[KnoxvilleKaraoke]

Thanks guys. This bar might have spent the $400K it is located in downtown Nashville so they get a lot of hopefuls in there wanting to be discovered I guess. That may be why the KJ's push tips so much because they don't get paid very much.
As for the tips for bumps in rotation, I do not do it. I prefer to be fair than a few dollars less poor.

My catalog is probably in the teens I guess. I live near Chartbuster so I check out their store very often and have spent a lot of money there over the years.

[wiseguy]

There are not 160k unique karaoke song titles in existence. And well under half that number if you are counting English language songs only. So this would mean that they have invested a small fortune for a lot of duplicates. These people are either stupid or liars.

Do I believe these people have every disc for these proclaimed 160k songs? No way.

Not having song books is simply asinine.

I'm a professional and I get paid a professional wage. My doctor and lawyer do not accept tips and neither do I.

[Bigdog]

I wish we could get professional wages. I get about $100-150 less than I'm worth because of all the cheap KJs in the area setting the standard fees. I'm a minority. That makes me have to conform to the high end of the going rate. Worth more..yeah What' s the chances of getting it unless every other KJ suddenly dies...slim to none.

[mnementh]

There are not 160k unique karaoke song titles in existence.

Don't know about 160k unique songs in existence and it must depend on what your definition is.

For example, "My Way" has been recorded by at least 50 different singers and "Yesterday" by considerably more and each is surely "unique"?

I have 70,000 tracks and of those, only 3,000 are duplicates in the "pure" sense of the term, i.e. the same song by the same artist.

I can assure you that I could easily boost my library by 50% or more with little effort but some of the tracks would be so obscure that there is little point in doing it.

As for not having books, my songbook runs to 900+ pages, so printing more that a "master" copy is prohibitively expensive and a waste of time and effort.

Admittedly, punters like to look through books but as 95%+ sing the same song every time, is it really worth the work?

Sandy

[srnitynow]

I think the only way this type of karaoke could work, is that the place is FULL of tourists. Different crowd every night, that way if someone gets offended by the totally unfair rotation works, they can leave and be replaced by another tourist waiting to chomp at the bit. No way would you keep a REGULAR karaoke crowd running it this way.

Rosario

[wiseguy]

I have 70,000 tracks and of those, only 3,000 are duplicates in the "pure" sense of the term, i.e. the same song by the same artist.

You have a lot more duplicates than that and probably a lot of non-English songs. Have you manually counted these? There simply is no other way to get an even close to accurate account. Because of the numerous mispellings and alternate spellings no software can do this for you.

And I have to wonder. Since I know that it is absolutely impossible to purchase 70,000 song titles, while ending up with only 3,000 duplicates, why would you leave just those 3,000 duplicates when you obviously removed the many thousands of others?

I can assure you that I could easily boost my library by 50% or more with little effort but some of the tracks would be so obscure that there is little point in doing it.

I can assure you that you can't.

By "unique song titles" I mean "same song by same artist". I am in the process of manually counting the unique song titles in the July update of the KJ Pro song database. Most will agree that this is as complete of a karaoke song database as any. I am considering English language CD+G song tracks only. I will publish my results here when I'm finished. I think many of you will be surprised.

As for not having books, my songbook runs to 900+ pages, so printing more that a "master" copy is prohibitively expensive and a waste of time and effort.Sandy

Whenever I look out over the crowd at my shows most of my song books are open and being looked through. I don't care how big they get or how much it costs I will always have a minimum of ten up to date song books to pass out.

[Acclaim]

Hello All,

I'll take tips if offered but NOT for bumping in the rotation. Put your song in and you get on the list in order.

I had a KJ recently that worked all from laptop and he said just put the song in and I have it. If not, I'll let you know.

I was uncomfortable doing and I would think that sometimes I'm in a Billy Joel 'state of mind' but can't remember all the songs or what he sings ... so I'd like to see a list.

Jason Christopher
Acclaim Productions

[Bigdog]

I had a new singer tonight. He just sang and he comes up and asks how much to sing again in the next 5 songs. There were 23 singers at that time.

I should have known something was up when he started asking for F bombers. New singers always want to start out with a song to really impress the new crowd. He let a few fly while singing that were not in any song.

I said no. What will it take? He starts at $20 $30 $40 long story short he makes it to $100

I told him I make my living from my reputation for a fair rotation. He didn't want to hear my reasoning, but he shook my hand and gave me credit for turning it down.

One more thing. I don't make a habit of it but once in a while I'll take a jerks money just because I can. He said he wanted to leave and asked me again how long it would take and if I could do anything for $20. I figured I'll take his money on account....on account of his being a persistant jerk about it. I put him at the end of the rotation. He was real happy. So technically he bought a new spot in the rotation. I moved his slips to the end in case he decided to trick me and stay. But he sang and left. It only cost him $20 for me to be rid of him. $20 exit fee..

He will have a good story to tell about turning down $100. Just to be a jerk I should have taken the $100 to take it off his hands. The best part is he is not that good of a singer. Only in his mind.

[mnementh]

I have 70,000 tracks and of those, only 3,000 are duplicates in the "pure" sense of the term, i.e. the same song by the same artist.

You have a lot more duplicates than that and probably a lot of non-English songs.

Actually not true.

I compiled my list into an Excel spreadsheet and wrote a little VBA code routine that checks SPECIFICALLY for ONLY the disc ID number, i.e. SF001-01, etc., so unless the disc manufacturers are in the habvit of putting out many copies of the same song by the same artist, I'm pretty sure I've got 99%+ of any dupes.

However, as a caveat, I certainly accept that different producers would have put out the same song by the same singer and I'm writing some code that will differentiate singer/song and hopefully spelling errors as well.

As for non English tracks, I have a few Jewish, some French (Celine Dion, etc.) and Italian (Opera) but the total probably doesn't run to more than 100 or so.

Have you manually counted these? There simply is no other way to get an even close to accurate account.

Again, not true. That's what my VBA code is for. As I said above, I'm confident that my dupe count BY DISC ID is 99%+ good. See caveat above

Because of the numerous mispellings and alternate spellings no software can do this for you.

As I have said, I don't check the entire file name, ONLY the disc ID. This immediately negates any spelling errors, as long as the disc ID is correct of course. As above, I'm hoping to write some code that will get round spelling errors. Unfortunately, as I'm not an habitual programmer, this will take a bit of time.

I can assure you that I could easily boost my library by 50% or more with little effort but some of the tracks would be so obscure that there is little point in doing it.

I can assure you that you can't.

Sorry Wiseguy but you're deluding yourself if you believe this. KJPRO might well have a very big database of karaoke tracks but I can assure you that it is by no means complete. There are many thousands of tracks out there, not in their database.

By "unique song titles" I mean "same song by same artist". I am in the process of manually counting the unique song titles in the July update of the KJ Pro song database. Most will agree that this is as complete of a karaoke song database as any. I am considering English language CD+G song tracks only. I will publish my results here when I'm finished. I think many of you will be surprised.

Your hard work is much appreciated, certainly by myself and I'm pretty sure everyone else asscoiated with the karaoke game.

If you would like a copy of the spreadsheet and VBA code, please ping me your email addy and I'll be happy to send it to you.

Sadly, as Excel runs out of steam at 64,000 lines, I have had to split the list into two.

Sandy

[mnementh]

On a quick note, Re. the KJPRO database, I was asked to find a track by a Welsh singer called David Alexander and obviously checked KJPRO to get a disc listing.

No results found but as my singer said, there were several CD's available and after Googling furiously, found Myfanwy Music.

Have a look here;

http://myfanwymusic.com/shop/index.php? ... cts_id=158

I certainly couldn't find a reference on KJPRO and David Alexander has at least 5 discs worth available.

And this is only one example of several I've searched for and not found.

Don't get me wrong, I think the KJPRO database is superb but it certainly isn't definitive.

Sandy

[wiseguy]

I compiled my list into an Excel spreadsheet and wrote a little VBA code routine that checks SPECIFICALLY for ONLY the disc ID number, i.e. SF001-01, etc., so unless the disc manufacturers are in the habvit of putting out many copies of the same song by the same artist, I'm pretty sure I've got 99%+ of any dupes.

You have to be kidding me. Let's take just one popular song as an example.

My Way by Frank Sinatra appears on these CDG discs:
2 All Hits
2 All Star
5 Chartbuster
4 DK
13 Music Maestro
2 Nikkodo
3 Party Tyme
2 Pocket Songs
3 Priddis
3 Song Factory
9 Sound Choice
5 Sunfly
3 Supercore
3 Sweet Georgia Brown
9 Top Tunes
2 Zoom
There are 33 other manufacturers with single disc releases of this song. Every one of these have a different disc ID number (that's 103 disc IDs for this song).

You will get similar results with many popular songs. So please explain how you get that 99%+ accuracy in finding duplicates by disc ID.

KJPRO might well have a very big database of karaoke tracks but I can assure you that it is by no means complete.

Of course no karaoke song database is going to contain every single song ever released but KJ Pro comes very close and can provide a very close estimate of the number of CDG karaoke song titles available.

[Bigdog]

Sound Choice has repackaged many of the exact same songs on different discs. Pocket Songs does it too. So I am very sure many other companies repackage songs.

You have to use the song title, artists name, manufacturer disc number and track number to compile your list.

Look up Journey in Sound Choice and you will see many dupes with different disc numbers. That's just one example.