Okay ... here's the issue.
For the last two weeks I've had a group of about six older teens come in. They put in songs for one or two people in their group as well as group songs.
Now I know that I am not as strict as some of you in my rotation in that I will allow a person to sing more than once if it's with another person or people.
I limited them last night to four spots in the rotation and am thinking of making that a policy. No one group of people will have more than four spots in the rotation; this would include single singers, duets and groups.
I am also leaning towards splitting up those four spots; two sing then other singers then the last two. Perhaps two spots between them.
I don't want my regulars to be irritated by this group of kids "hogging" the rotation. They aren't even paying customers. Last night they bought their food at Chipotle's then brought it to the Deli to eat and partake of the karaoke. Two regulars brought it to the owner's attention (apparently they did the same thing last week) and she told them to put it away.
I'm thinking that I need to have policies in place for when I want to utilize them. If it's all regulars I don't have these issues but it does seem as though the crowd has really been growing lately.
Opinions please ...
A Group Of Singers
Did you seriously think I wouldn't have one or two? 
There are several issues to address.
1. I have been accused of "catering" to certain tables. Totally false but that's how someone saw it.
My remedy was to impliment a change to how I do my rotation. I try to breakup all of my singers. If I have 2 sitting together at this table, they won't sing back to back. Even though common sense would dictate that it would be easier for the hard working KJ. After the rotation starts to fill they get separated. If I have a group sitting together they definately get split up. I go to someone completely on the other side of the room. Then I go to another corner. I zig zag them all night this way.
2. As to the amount of singers in a group. That kinda depends on how many actually sign up with slips and how many names are on those slips.
If there are 8-10 people in the group but only four singers it's a no brainer. 4 people will sing as different singers. Now if Bob and Mary always sing each song together, Bob gets charged with the song. If Mary wants to always sing with Bob, Carol, Ted and Alice, Carol may get credit for the song. Never back to back. There may be a 3-5 depending, singer separation between them. At opposite ends of the room.
3. As to them not buying anything...if the owner doesn't say anything ...who am I to.
4. If the kids are singing wild stuff or acting goofy the separation may be even bigger with less singers from that group. I am always in control of my show. They usually put the same names on the slips but switch the order of the names. Trying to trick me.
I'll pick one or two names and thats how many times in the rotation they will get. Spread way out.
5. Zig zag every singer all night long and nobody will have much to complain about. If two or more people are singing a song together I ALWAYS ONLY ANNOUNCE ONE NAME AND ONE NAME ONLY ALL NIGHT LONG. Even if it's a duet. If nobody else hears the other persons name they can't say well she sang twice already. No whose name and how many did you hear. Well it was Bobs song, not Marys. Some birdbrain will always challenge you on it, but you only said one name. That was the name on the slip and they turned it in and they can sing with whom ever they want on their turn. Then I come back with...Did I tell you who you could sing your song with? Then shut up.
6. I look at it this way. It's an entire table full of paying customers. Each is paying for their own drinks and food. So I have to be fair to them and allow everyone of them that wants to sing the opportunity to do so. If I have 10 different people/singers at the table and they each turn in a slip, who am I to pick and choose who sings and who doesn't? 10 people can drop enough money to pay for you to be there. They will get to sing just as every other singer in the bar.
7. What difference does it make if you have 10 singers spread out all over the room one here and one there or they all sit at one table. It's still 10 different people that want to sing and spend money. All the other singers better understand that they are no different than anybody else. GET OVER IT. I'm being as fair as possible to each and everyone of you.
8. If Bob turns in a slip will Bill. Bob gets credit. If Mary, turns in a slip with Carol, Bill & Bob. Mary gets it. If Bill turns in one with Bob, Mary, Carol and Frank, Bill gets it. If that's the way it goes all night I'll pick a persons name on the stack of slips and circle one of them. Then I decide which pile they go in unless they tell me that one in particular really wants to sing it. Then I'll change a name on a different slip and put it in the pile of someone that needs a song for the next rotation.
Remember they are with 10 people, four singers singing from their table should be enough to keep them happy and there all night without complaining. It could be all 10 of them singing.
9. I'm always as fair as I can be to each singer without looking like I'm catering to anyone...which I'm not.
There are several issues to address.
1. I have been accused of "catering" to certain tables. Totally false but that's how someone saw it.
My remedy was to impliment a change to how I do my rotation. I try to breakup all of my singers. If I have 2 sitting together at this table, they won't sing back to back. Even though common sense would dictate that it would be easier for the hard working KJ. After the rotation starts to fill they get separated. If I have a group sitting together they definately get split up. I go to someone completely on the other side of the room. Then I go to another corner. I zig zag them all night this way.
2. As to the amount of singers in a group. That kinda depends on how many actually sign up with slips and how many names are on those slips.
If there are 8-10 people in the group but only four singers it's a no brainer. 4 people will sing as different singers. Now if Bob and Mary always sing each song together, Bob gets charged with the song. If Mary wants to always sing with Bob, Carol, Ted and Alice, Carol may get credit for the song. Never back to back. There may be a 3-5 depending, singer separation between them. At opposite ends of the room.
3. As to them not buying anything...if the owner doesn't say anything ...who am I to.
4. If the kids are singing wild stuff or acting goofy the separation may be even bigger with less singers from that group. I am always in control of my show. They usually put the same names on the slips but switch the order of the names. Trying to trick me.
I'll pick one or two names and thats how many times in the rotation they will get. Spread way out.5. Zig zag every singer all night long and nobody will have much to complain about. If two or more people are singing a song together I ALWAYS ONLY ANNOUNCE ONE NAME AND ONE NAME ONLY ALL NIGHT LONG. Even if it's a duet. If nobody else hears the other persons name they can't say well she sang twice already. No whose name and how many did you hear. Well it was Bobs song, not Marys. Some birdbrain will always challenge you on it, but you only said one name. That was the name on the slip and they turned it in and they can sing with whom ever they want on their turn. Then I come back with...Did I tell you who you could sing your song with? Then shut up.
6. I look at it this way. It's an entire table full of paying customers. Each is paying for their own drinks and food. So I have to be fair to them and allow everyone of them that wants to sing the opportunity to do so. If I have 10 different people/singers at the table and they each turn in a slip, who am I to pick and choose who sings and who doesn't? 10 people can drop enough money to pay for you to be there. They will get to sing just as every other singer in the bar.
7. What difference does it make if you have 10 singers spread out all over the room one here and one there or they all sit at one table. It's still 10 different people that want to sing and spend money. All the other singers better understand that they are no different than anybody else. GET OVER IT. I'm being as fair as possible to each and everyone of you.
8. If Bob turns in a slip will Bill. Bob gets credit. If Mary, turns in a slip with Carol, Bill & Bob. Mary gets it. If Bill turns in one with Bob, Mary, Carol and Frank, Bill gets it. If that's the way it goes all night I'll pick a persons name on the stack of slips and circle one of them. Then I decide which pile they go in unless they tell me that one in particular really wants to sing it. Then I'll change a name on a different slip and put it in the pile of someone that needs a song for the next rotation.
Remember they are with 10 people, four singers singing from their table should be enough to keep them happy and there all night without complaining. It could be all 10 of them singing.9. I'm always as fair as I can be to each singer without looking like I'm catering to anyone...which I'm not.
I knew you would have opinions. Looks as though I'm more or less on the right track. This hasn't come up before at my show. My regulars are awesome; it's just this new crowd that's coming in.
I'm tired and on my way to bed so I'll take another look tomorrow. I may have some questions.
Looks as though I'm more or less on the right track. This hasn't come up before at my show. My regulars are awesome; it's just this new crowd that's coming in.I'm tired and on my way to bed so I'll take another look tomorrow. I may have some questions.
Sabrina the Cat
If Bob turns in a slip will Bill. Bob gets credit. If Mary, turns in a slip with Carol, Bill & Bob. Mary gets it. If Bill turns in one with Bob, Mary, Carol and Frank, Bill gets it. If that's the way it goes all night I'll pick a persons name on the stack of slips and circle one of them.
So if Bob turns in a slip with Bill, Carol, and Frank, on it and Carol turns in a slip with Bob, Bill, and Frank on it and Frank turns in a slip with Bob, Bill, and Carol on it, and Bill turns in a slip with Bob, Carol, and Frank on it does this mean that Bob, Carol, and Frank, get to sing three times and Bill gets to sing four times in one rotation?
I can only imagine how this would go over if there were 15 other singers turning in slips only for themselves.
At my shows NO PERSON will sing twice in the same rotation. Not in a duet, as part of a group, or for any other reason. There is no fairer way to run a rotation. I may get an occasional complaint from a singer who doesn't have the courage to sing alone but the vast majority of my singers wouldn't have it any other way.
I agree that it is not your responsibility to wory about who is in the place or if they bring food with them. If they are allowed in they are considered equal to everyone else.
You are playing God.
Who am I to tell a singer they can't sing with someone else on their turn? How is that being fair?
If any KJ told me I couldn't sing with whomever I wanted to on my turn I would be up the bar owners rear end about it. And if that didn't fix the problem out the door I would go.
They are all paying customers. It doesn't matter if they sit on each others laps or they are scattered around the bar. 20 singers is 20 paying customers and I don't care where they sit. Be they individuals or one big group.
I only announce one name and that is the person charged with that song. They can sing with the entire bar, it doesn't matter because it's their turn. They bought drinks and maybe food.
I very rarely get a complaint about the way I do it. Not counting the jerks that complain about everything at every place they go. They don't count in my book. Cronic complainers I ignore.
I feel that telling someone who they can sing with on their turn is ignorant. They come to my show to spend money that pays me. That keeps my job.
I'm just a mortal man, not the KJ God. But I should be.
How is it Bobs song penalty, if Bill wanted him to sing along with him? I don't understand that. How can anyone sing a duet by themselves? Sorry Mary you sang in Bobs duet go sit in the corner until next time. That will teach you to try and have fun. Do it now. You're lucky I don't cut out your tongue. No duets under penalty of law. No group singing. You save money on microphones...you only need one.
Honestly... I would never hire a KJ that pulled that.
So if Bob turns in a slip with Bill, Carol, and Frank, on it and Carol turns in a slip with Bob, Bill, and Frank on it and Frank turns in a slip with Bob, Bill, and Carol on it, and Bill turns in a slip with Bob, Carol, and Frank on it does this mean that Bob, Carol, and Frank, get to sing three times and Bill gets to sing four times in one rotation?
CORRECT.
Bill was only the main singer on one slip...his. He was an add on backup singer on the rest of them. It may not have even been his idea. He could have just been included with the rest of them...for the FUN of it.
I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I seriously told everyone they could not sing with someone else without being penalized for it. It's wrong.
I don't care what some jerk thinks it looks like. I know whose song it was and they can spend their 3 minutes of glory singing with anybody they want.
If someone complains about it I will ask them if they want me to play GOD and not allow them to sing with anyone else. That should be more than enough to shut up any complainers.
Nobody in the bar can be that stupid to not see and understand what's going on. Nobody is pulling a fastone on anyone and they are not singing anymore than anyone else. Singing back up with someone or singing as part of a duet isn't like singing the lead. Two people don't turn in a duet it's one or the others song. It can't be sung by itself. Their is no such thing as one part harmony.
Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons. Everyone in the world knows who the lead singer of the song was. It wasn't the back up singers song. It was Frankies. He sang on his turn. The back up singers sang their back up parts to "help" Frankie. It's not Frankie and Bob and Nick and Tommy and the No Seasons. Bob, Nick & Tommy didn't get credit for the songs just Frankie and the collective members (the Four Seasons.) Technically the three seasons because Frankie was number four. It started out with just the four of them being the four seasons. And the Frankie bigshot became Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons and added another singer. Frankie + 4.
Frankie turns in a slip to sing and has 4 other names on it....it's his song and he can sing with anybody and everybody he wants.
KJ.... not GOD.
Who am I to tell a singer they can't sing with someone else on their turn? How is that being fair?
If any KJ told me I couldn't sing with whomever I wanted to on my turn I would be up the bar owners rear end about it. And if that didn't fix the problem out the door I would go.
They are all paying customers. It doesn't matter if they sit on each others laps or they are scattered around the bar. 20 singers is 20 paying customers and I don't care where they sit. Be they individuals or one big group.
I only announce one name and that is the person charged with that song. They can sing with the entire bar, it doesn't matter because it's their turn. They bought drinks and maybe food.
I very rarely get a complaint about the way I do it. Not counting the jerks that complain about everything at every place they go. They don't count in my book. Cronic complainers I ignore.
I feel that telling someone who they can sing with on their turn is ignorant. They come to my show to spend money that pays me. That keeps my job.
I'm just a mortal man, not the KJ God. But I should be.
How is it Bobs song penalty, if Bill wanted him to sing along with him? I don't understand that. How can anyone sing a duet by themselves? Sorry Mary you sang in Bobs duet go sit in the corner until next time. That will teach you to try and have fun. Do it now. You're lucky I don't cut out your tongue. No duets under penalty of law. No group singing. You save money on microphones...you only need one.
Honestly... I would never hire a KJ that pulled that.
So if Bob turns in a slip with Bill, Carol, and Frank, on it and Carol turns in a slip with Bob, Bill, and Frank on it and Frank turns in a slip with Bob, Bill, and Carol on it, and Bill turns in a slip with Bob, Carol, and Frank on it does this mean that Bob, Carol, and Frank, get to sing three times and Bill gets to sing four times in one rotation?
CORRECT.
Bill was only the main singer on one slip...his. He was an add on backup singer on the rest of them. It may not have even been his idea. He could have just been included with the rest of them...for the FUN of it.
I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I seriously told everyone they could not sing with someone else without being penalized for it. It's wrong.
I don't care what some jerk thinks it looks like. I know whose song it was and they can spend their 3 minutes of glory singing with anybody they want.
If someone complains about it I will ask them if they want me to play GOD and not allow them to sing with anyone else. That should be more than enough to shut up any complainers.
Nobody in the bar can be that stupid to not see and understand what's going on. Nobody is pulling a fastone on anyone and they are not singing anymore than anyone else. Singing back up with someone or singing as part of a duet isn't like singing the lead. Two people don't turn in a duet it's one or the others song. It can't be sung by itself. Their is no such thing as one part harmony.
Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons. Everyone in the world knows who the lead singer of the song was. It wasn't the back up singers song. It was Frankies. He sang on his turn. The back up singers sang their back up parts to "help" Frankie. It's not Frankie and Bob and Nick and Tommy and the No Seasons. Bob, Nick & Tommy didn't get credit for the songs just Frankie and the collective members (the Four Seasons.) Technically the three seasons because Frankie was number four. It started out with just the four of them being the four seasons. And the Frankie bigshot became Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons and added another singer. Frankie + 4.
Frankie turns in a slip to sing and has 4 other names on it....it's his song and he can sing with anybody and everybody he wants.
KJ.... not GOD.
Playing God is when you tell people WHAT they are allowed to sing. Not allowing people to abuse the singer rotation is my job. I never tell anyone that they can't sing with someone else. I just let them know that whoever sings will not sing again in that rotation. They simply need to make a decision on whether they want to sing alone, do a duet with someone else, or waste their turn singing with some fool who is afraid to sing alone.You are playing God.
Who am I to tell a singer they can't sing with someone else on their turn? How is that being fair?
If I was a singer and and I saw the same person up there with a mic in his/her hand four times since the last time I sang I would either leave or go up and wack the KJ up side the head for being an idiot. (The latter I actually did before I got into the business myself)If any KJ told me I couldn't sing with whomever I wanted to on my turn I would be up the bar owners rear end about it. And if that didn't fix the problem out the door I would go.
Where they sit is of no consequence.They are all paying customers. It doesn't matter if they sit on each others laps or they are scattered around the bar. 20 singers is 20 paying customers and I don't care where they sit. Be they individuals or one big group.
Because Bob has a choice. He does not have to use his turn in the rotation to sing with Bill. You can't sing a duet by yourself (although I've seen a few try) but you can make the choice of whether or not you use your turn to be part of one.How is it Bobs song penalty, if Bill wanted him to sing along with him? I don't understand that. How can anyone sing a duet by themselves?
This is karaoke music. The background vocals are included. No need for four other people to come up and pretend to sing them.Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons. Everyone in the world knows who the lead singer of the song was. It wasn't the back up singers song. It was Frankies. He sang on his turn. The back up singers sang their back up parts to "help" Frankie.
I see it happen all the time at other karaoke shows. People circumvent the singer rotation by going around and asking other people if they can sing with them. So they end up singing multiple times in every rotation. You think this is fair to all the singers who sing by themselves and get up one time per rotation? These people are very annoying to the singers in general but are apparently welcome at your shows. And how about the "rotation cheater" who talks people who don't normally participate in karaoke into turning in a slip who then just stand there and hold a mic while the rotation cheater sings the song. They would be very happy at your karaoke. "Man this guy's easy to get over on... I bet I can sing five times more often than anyone else here!"
There is only one completely fair singer rotation. The one I have used from day one. The one that has amassed me a large following loyal singers. The one that gets me hired before all others. The one that has never had a single person accuse me of favoritism. The one that boldly says "You will never see another person sing twice before your next turn".
KJ.... not rotation abuse enabler.
I probably get the same amount of rotation beaters as any other KJ. It doesn't happen all that often. When you get the singers that are a little more serious and more talented the problem is greatly reduced.
The biggest abusers are the immature 21ers.
Imagine that....
I may look like an idiot, but I can catch on pretty quick.
The last grandma I had that tried to trick me, got her crutches knocked out from under her. Not at my show granny... 
So you think you can mess with me... well do ya??? 
And don't even think about singing with your mentally challenged daughter or she gets it too. Understand??? You got a lotta nerve...
I have had people put a girls name on a slip and a guy sang the song. I announced that was Mary. You want to try it again? They don't do that again. Public humiliation for being a jerk works pretty good at controlling someone. Trick me with a girls name and that's what I'll call you in front of everyone on the microphone.
Duets are as much a part of the music scene as solo performers. So to eliminate them and penalize someone that wants to sing one just ain't fair.
I bet I get as many complaints as you do for barring people from singing duets.
I use song slips. They are laid out on my table in the rotation. They can be seen by anyone at any time. I'll show you whose name is on the slip. They lay there all night long. Each singer accumulates a pile of their own slips by the end of the night. One slip for every song. One name on every slip. One name and only one name announced for each and every song. Their is no mistake about who got credit for any song sung. Because they only hear one name. They may see 30 faces standing there with them but that was only one persons song. They sat there for the entire rotation patiently waiting and spending money for the opportunity to sing with anyone they choose. Only in America.
What a country. 
I run a transparent karaoke show. It's all out there highly visable. They have the right to ask me about it and I'll give them my honest answer and show them in black and white how it's going to be for each and every singer there. No exceptions. Sing with anyone you want on your turn. No penalties. No late fees. Just people singing with their friends and coworkers like one big happy family. If the complainer really wants to make a big deal out of it I will resort to the GOD rotation method and I'll through them in the penalty box for abusing the rotation by singing with another person.
Editing my song book is not playing God. I am conforming to the FCC decency standards that apply to every radio station in the country. It's to protect the innocent people that don't think it's cute or funny to be bombarded with obsenities all night long.
The biggest abusers are the immature 21ers.
Imagine that.... I may look like an idiot, but I can catch on pretty quick.
The last grandma I had that tried to trick me, got her crutches knocked out from under her. Not at my show granny... So you think you can mess with me... well do ya??? And don't even think about singing with your mentally challenged daughter or she gets it too. Understand??? You got a lotta nerve... I have had people put a girls name on a slip and a guy sang the song. I announced that was Mary. You want to try it again? They don't do that again. Public humiliation for being a jerk works pretty good at controlling someone.
Trick me with a girls name and that's what I'll call you in front of everyone on the microphone. Duets are as much a part of the music scene as solo performers. So to eliminate them and penalize someone that wants to sing one just ain't fair.
I bet I get as many complaints as you do for barring people from singing duets.
I use song slips. They are laid out on my table in the rotation. They can be seen by anyone at any time. I'll show you whose name is on the slip. They lay there all night long. Each singer accumulates a pile of their own slips by the end of the night. One slip for every song. One name on every slip. One name and only one name announced for each and every song. Their is no mistake about who got credit for any song sung. Because they only hear one name. They may see 30 faces standing there with them but that was only one persons song. They sat there for the entire rotation patiently waiting and spending money for the opportunity to sing with anyone they choose. Only in America.
What a country. I run a transparent karaoke show. It's all out there highly visable. They have the right to ask me about it and I'll give them my honest answer and show them in black and white how it's going to be for each and every singer there. No exceptions. Sing with anyone you want on your turn. No penalties. No late fees. Just people singing with their friends and coworkers like one big happy family. If the complainer really wants to make a big deal out of it I will resort to the GOD rotation method and I'll through them in the penalty box for abusing the rotation by singing with another person.
Editing my song book is not playing God. I am conforming to the FCC decency standards that apply to every radio station in the country. It's to protect the innocent people that don't think it's cute or funny to be bombarded with obsenities all night long.
The simple fact is that the way you run the singer rotation allows for the unscrupulous singer to easily manipulate the rotation. You can not prevent this without applying the rotation rules on a case by case basis. How can you possibly think there is anything fair about that?
While Bigdog's system is not as flawed as many I have seen, it is flawed none the less. Any system that allows someone to circumvent the rotation process without the KJ altering the rules on an individual basis is flawed.
My system assures that every single person gets exactly the same amount of mic time (or number of songs). No group singer or duet only singer is going to get four times as much mic time as the person who sings by themselves.
To Sabrina's original problem concerning a group of singers "hogging" the mic. Use my system of singer rotation and that problem goes away. And so do any other situations where any person can accuse you of running an unfair rotation.
Point made without the use of 25 emoticons.
While Bigdog's system is not as flawed as many I have seen, it is flawed none the less. Any system that allows someone to circumvent the rotation process without the KJ altering the rules on an individual basis is flawed.
My system assures that every single person gets exactly the same amount of mic time (or number of songs). No group singer or duet only singer is going to get four times as much mic time as the person who sings by themselves.
To Sabrina's original problem concerning a group of singers "hogging" the mic. Use my system of singer rotation and that problem goes away. And so do any other situations where any person can accuse you of running an unfair rotation.
Point made without the use of 25 emoticons.
One name gets announced and one name gets credit.
What is fair about people paying money all night and not being able to sing with someone else without a penalty?
I make no special priviledge for any singer because I don't dictate how they can spend THEIR song selection and singing time.
Every single one of my singers has the same exact same option to sing with whomever they want on THEIR scheduled turn. Without the fear of penalties for wanting to share their happiness. Where is the unfairness or special rules or favors?
Singing with others is not a crime requiring a penalty. Sharing the spotlight is not a crime. You make it seem as thought wanting to sing a duet is an unnatural act.
Fairness is not based on how someone thinks it should be. It's based on how it actually is. That fact is even though Bob sang with 3 other people on THEIR song, doesn't mean Bob was taken care of or was granted special priviledges.
I didn't tell Bob to sing with anyone. I didn't force Bob to sing with anyone. I don't penalize Bob for singing with anyone because THEY wanted him to on THEIR turn for whatever reason THEY wanted him to.
Their was not plot or conspiracy on my or Bobs part for him to sing so much. I don't care if Bob is requested to sing with 30 different singers as long as they are not Bobs song slips. Lucky Bob for being so good and or so popular. No penalty for being good or popular.
I'm am sure you have lost singers for having a penalty clause. Now if I see or know that Bob is somehow conspiring with each singer to get to sing more to circumvent my fair rotation, that is an entirely different matter. But that has not been the case or any type of regular behavior at my shows.
I can't account for the norm jerks that can and do show up at any show from time to time.
If I see the same group of people (usually the 21ers) that put 5 names on every slip I do regulate their slots depending on how many total people are in the group. If I know that maybe only one or two of them are the actual singers and the others are decoys. This comes from years of experience and what I feel is fair for the entire crowd in attendance. If I regulate at all it's to keep the rotation from being abused. Not so it allows Bob to sing more times than anyone else.
Since I have run my rotation this way for 17 years without deviating and penalizing anyone for the dreaded "duet penalty clause" and work more steady than any of my competition, something works.
There is always going to be one knucklehead in every crowd, yours or mine that will find something to nit pick about something or somebody. That is a fact of life. Nobody will ever be able to please everyone all the time. I take into account the integrity of the complainer. If they are a cronic complainer it goes in one ear and out the other..Some are born cry babies and you or I will never be able to stop them from whining.
I only penalize jerks and the infraction will have been somethoing that really upset me like equipment abuse. Not for singing a duet.
Over the years there have been some singers that want to sing their song and the other persons song and then do a duet together and count it as another turn. NO WAY. You sing, she sings and the duet is coming off of one of your piles. You decide whose, but two people aren't getting 3 piles. One singer gets one pile and how you use your turn doesn't matter at my show. No group participation penalties.
{Since I have used up my monthly allotment of emoticons please pretend there are 10 in this post.}
What is fair about people paying money all night and not being able to sing with someone else without a penalty?
I make no special priviledge for any singer because I don't dictate how they can spend THEIR song selection and singing time.
Every single one of my singers has the same exact same option to sing with whomever they want on THEIR scheduled turn. Without the fear of penalties for wanting to share their happiness. Where is the unfairness or special rules or favors?
Singing with others is not a crime requiring a penalty. Sharing the spotlight is not a crime. You make it seem as thought wanting to sing a duet is an unnatural act.
Fairness is not based on how someone thinks it should be. It's based on how it actually is. That fact is even though Bob sang with 3 other people on THEIR song, doesn't mean Bob was taken care of or was granted special priviledges.
I didn't tell Bob to sing with anyone. I didn't force Bob to sing with anyone. I don't penalize Bob for singing with anyone because THEY wanted him to on THEIR turn for whatever reason THEY wanted him to.
Their was not plot or conspiracy on my or Bobs part for him to sing so much. I don't care if Bob is requested to sing with 30 different singers as long as they are not Bobs song slips. Lucky Bob for being so good and or so popular. No penalty for being good or popular.
I'm am sure you have lost singers for having a penalty clause. Now if I see or know that Bob is somehow conspiring with each singer to get to sing more to circumvent my fair rotation, that is an entirely different matter. But that has not been the case or any type of regular behavior at my shows.
I can't account for the norm jerks that can and do show up at any show from time to time.
If I see the same group of people (usually the 21ers) that put 5 names on every slip I do regulate their slots depending on how many total people are in the group. If I know that maybe only one or two of them are the actual singers and the others are decoys. This comes from years of experience and what I feel is fair for the entire crowd in attendance. If I regulate at all it's to keep the rotation from being abused. Not so it allows Bob to sing more times than anyone else.
Since I have run my rotation this way for 17 years without deviating and penalizing anyone for the dreaded "duet penalty clause" and work more steady than any of my competition, something works.
There is always going to be one knucklehead in every crowd, yours or mine that will find something to nit pick about something or somebody. That is a fact of life. Nobody will ever be able to please everyone all the time. I take into account the integrity of the complainer. If they are a cronic complainer it goes in one ear and out the other..Some are born cry babies and you or I will never be able to stop them from whining.
I only penalize jerks and the infraction will have been somethoing that really upset me like equipment abuse. Not for singing a duet.
Over the years there have been some singers that want to sing their song and the other persons song and then do a duet together and count it as another turn. NO WAY. You sing, she sings and the duet is coming off of one of your piles. You decide whose, but two people aren't getting 3 piles. One singer gets one pile and how you use your turn doesn't matter at my show. No group participation penalties.
{Since I have used up my monthly allotment of emoticons please pretend there are 10 in this post.}
Oh my gosh, I didn't mean to start another debate guys. I'm sorry.
Wiseguy, I really appreciate your knowledge and advice on a variety of subjects, but, as a singer of duets, I have to go with BD on this one. I can only imagine the crap I would get from hubby if he couldn't do a song he wanted to because I wanted to do a duet! There would certainly be problems! Luckily for me it seems to be the rule around here that a duet only counts for one person. That is how it has been at all of the shows I have gone to and I haven't heard anyone complain ... yet.
I had one KJ tell me that he puts all the duets at the end of the rotation. I'm still trying to figure out the logic behind that one. It seems as though it would encourage folks to put up duets so they could sing in their "regular" spot and then sing again in a duet. I don't think that would go over very well at all.
I do like BD's idea of only one name per slip though. But then again, unless you limit the number of people who can sing in a group, you could have a group of six put in six slips when it's basically the same people singing each time.
Wouldn't it be nice if folks just played by the rules?
Wiseguy, I really appreciate your knowledge and advice on a variety of subjects, but, as a singer of duets, I have to go with BD on this one. I can only imagine the crap I would get from hubby if he couldn't do a song he wanted to because I wanted to do a duet! There would certainly be problems! Luckily for me it seems to be the rule around here that a duet only counts for one person. That is how it has been at all of the shows I have gone to and I haven't heard anyone complain ... yet.
I had one KJ tell me that he puts all the duets at the end of the rotation. I'm still trying to figure out the logic behind that one. It seems as though it would encourage folks to put up duets so they could sing in their "regular" spot and then sing again in a duet. I don't think that would go over very well at all.
I do like BD's idea of only one name per slip though. But then again, unless you limit the number of people who can sing in a group, you could have a group of six put in six slips when it's basically the same people singing each time.
Wouldn't it be nice if folks just played by the rules?
Sabrina the Cat
They can actually put 30 names on a song request slip. I will (play GOD) evaluate the names to see who the actual (main) singer of that song is. I will circle that name and it's their song. It goes on their pile in the rotation. If I get 10 slips from the same group with all or most of the same names on it, I again will evaluate the names to determine who gets credit for that one. If I see there are 2-3 4 real main song singers, then I turn the 10 slips with 30 names on them in to 3 different piles. Three or Four singers at a table of 10 is more than fair to the rest of the singers in the bar and to the 10 people that are spending money. Each may very well be paying for their own individual drinks. So that means 10 potential individual singers. To penalize these 3-4 singers and make them mad enough to leave the bar, what good was that? Who looks bad and will be bad mouthed for it. ME.
Remember these 3-4 singers will not sing back to back. I will try to spread them out evenly in the rotation zig zagging across the bar. And there will be 3-4 different names announced. One for each song sung. That way nobody hears BOBs name four times to think they were all Bobs songs. At that point Bob becomes a ghost. He is not the main singer.
Also remember that I will tell any complainers that I didn't tell them who they could or could not sing with on their trun so why aren't they allowed to sing with someone?
Clarification note to be fair and balanced: 
Wiseguy does allow duets to be sung.
You just go directly to jail. Do not pass the pretzels & chips and do not fill out another song slip.
Remember these 3-4 singers will not sing back to back. I will try to spread them out evenly in the rotation zig zagging across the bar. And there will be 3-4 different names announced. One for each song sung. That way nobody hears BOBs name four times to think they were all Bobs songs. At that point Bob becomes a ghost. He is not the main singer.
Also remember that I will tell any complainers that I didn't tell them who they could or could not sing with on their trun so why aren't they allowed to sing with someone?
Clarification note to be fair and balanced:
Wiseguy does allow duets to be sung.
You just go directly to jail. Do not pass the pretzels & chips and do not fill out another song slip.
Sabrina, with all due respect, you have been performing karaoke for a short time in only one location. You have not witnessed the diversity of people and locations that those of us that have been in this business for years have. You will in time learn the sneaky tricks that people will use to cheat your rotation system.
Bigdog, tell me how you would handle this scenario. It's not one I made up. The names have been changed to protect the idiots.
You have a rotation of ten singers. Johnny, a known karaoke junkie, comes in with five friends. Johnny turns in a slip that has Johnny and Crew as the name. When you call him up he and the other five all come up but during the song only Johnny is singing and the others just stand there holding a mic or dance around. Now each of the five friends turn in a slip with their name first (i.e. Dave and Crew) but each time Johnny is the only one who sings. Johnny just got to sing six out of the sixteen songs in that rotation and he's fixing to do the same thing in the next rotation. It's totally obvious to the other singers what Johnny is doing and at this point thy are are looking at you as to say WTF.
Bigdog, tell me how you would handle this scenario. It's not one I made up. The names have been changed to protect the idiots.
You have a rotation of ten singers. Johnny, a known karaoke junkie, comes in with five friends. Johnny turns in a slip that has Johnny and Crew as the name. When you call him up he and the other five all come up but during the song only Johnny is singing and the others just stand there holding a mic or dance around. Now each of the five friends turn in a slip with their name first (i.e. Dave and Crew) but each time Johnny is the only one who sings. Johnny just got to sing six out of the sixteen songs in that rotation and he's fixing to do the same thing in the next rotation. It's totally obvious to the other singers what Johnny is doing and at this point thy are are looking at you as to say WTF.
First, I'm new to this forum, so Hi to all. Now, to the subject. I have a rule in the front of my songbook that states, "each singer sings ONCE per rotation, with the exception of singing a duet requested by ANOTHER singer. In this way, the MOST anyone gets to sing is twice in a rotation, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE. So, if Susie sings her song, then Johnny wants her to sing Summer Nights, Susie gets to sing twice, AND SHE'S DONE.
Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke
Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke
