They went after the KJs and the bars.
They are also investigating in other un-named areas of the country.
Hot Off The Press ...Piracy Lawsuit Actions.....
Hot Off The Press ...Piracy Lawsuit Actions.....
http://www.uskaraokealliance.com/Karaok ... tm#7-20-09 Phoenix, AZ Takes Center Stage in Karaoke Piracy Battle:
They went after the KJs and the bars.
They are also investigating in other un-named areas of the country.
They went after the KJs and the bars.
They are also investigating in other un-named areas of the country.
Read the entire page. They are offering in a letter to bar owners ways to tell if their KJ is legal. They are asking them to question the KJs about the legality of their library. And things to look for.
If they win here the game is over. The precident will be set and they will fast track more lawsuits.
It also looks like they are making overtures to offer a settlement agreement to the KJs. Before the trial.
Let's say you as the KJ get sued and they win. Now the bar you work in loses for hiring you, the proved in court illegal KJ. Do you think the bar owner will turn around and sue the KJ for getting him into trouble and to recoup the money he just lost? I would.
I am assuming these KJs are multi-rigging with one illegal hard drive coped over and over. They are the big fish.
Assume for a minute you have a 95% legal library.
Do you think they will go after you or the totally illegal multi-rigger? FIRST. Or will it really matter to them how many illegal songs you have?
If they win here the game is over. The precident will be set and they will fast track more lawsuits.
It also looks like they are making overtures to offer a settlement agreement to the KJs. Before the trial.
Let's say you as the KJ get sued and they win. Now the bar you work in loses for hiring you, the proved in court illegal KJ. Do you think the bar owner will turn around and sue the KJ for getting him into trouble and to recoup the money he just lost? I would.
I am assuming these KJs are multi-rigging with one illegal hard drive coped over and over. They are the big fish.
Assume for a minute you have a 95% legal library.
Do you think they will go after you or the totally illegal multi-rigger? FIRST. Or will it really matter to them how many illegal songs you have?LEGALITY
The entire DJ industry lives in the gray area of law… Music Publishers and Artists licensed CDG’s (to the few companies actually paying legal licensing fees) only to be distributed via the CDG. The Karaoke Publishers can not give you blanket permission to put music on a hard drive or they risk being sued (…again!) by the various publishing houses. KIAA as a group has agreed as long as you purchase one for one copies of CDG’s and are willing to prove that via validation they will not pursue legal actions against individuals or companies using purchased content on a hard drive. They do, however, reserve the right to be able to validate catalogs and keep a record of songs purchased that are used on a hard drive so they can keep track of who is actually displaying validated content. An efficient validation program is being worked on currently and of course will be adapted over time to deal with issues as they occur.
Pop Hits Monthly has started releasing MP3+G disks and Sound Choice is currently working on new content being released on MP3+G, so we have come a long way on this. Stand by as there are going to be major developments in this area in the very near future.
This is the first I have heard about a validation program. Probably something like Microsoft uses to tell if you have a legal OS. I assume it will only be effective on music purchased after they invent the validation system. Anything before that you are probably screwed.
The entire DJ industry lives in the gray area of law… Music Publishers and Artists licensed CDG’s (to the few companies actually paying legal licensing fees) only to be distributed via the CDG. The Karaoke Publishers can not give you blanket permission to put music on a hard drive or they risk being sued (…again!) by the various publishing houses. KIAA as a group has agreed as long as you purchase one for one copies of CDG’s and are willing to prove that via validation they will not pursue legal actions against individuals or companies using purchased content on a hard drive. They do, however, reserve the right to be able to validate catalogs and keep a record of songs purchased that are used on a hard drive so they can keep track of who is actually displaying validated content. An efficient validation program is being worked on currently and of course will be adapted over time to deal with issues as they occur.
Pop Hits Monthly has started releasing MP3+G disks and Sound Choice is currently working on new content being released on MP3+G, so we have come a long way on this. Stand by as there are going to be major developments in this area in the very near future.
This is the first I have heard about a validation program. Probably something like Microsoft uses to tell if you have a legal OS. I assume it will only be effective on music purchased after they invent the validation system. Anything before that you are probably screwed.
There's one thing that's got me scratching my head a bit on this one . . .
The suit is for trademark infringement and counterfeiting, not copyright infringement, which is what usually is referred to as piracy.
I'm kinda thinking the suit will focus on the removal or alteration of the splash screens before each song rather than actual copyright piracy. In fact, I'm thinking that Sound Choice will be very focused on NOT examining the copyright status on their material too closely, for fear that it will harm their case.
And then there's this whiny blurb . . .
The suit is for trademark infringement and counterfeiting, not copyright infringement, which is what usually is referred to as piracy.
I'm kinda thinking the suit will focus on the removal or alteration of the splash screens before each song rather than actual copyright piracy. In fact, I'm thinking that Sound Choice will be very focused on NOT examining the copyright status on their material too closely, for fear that it will harm their case.
And then there's this whiny blurb . . .
There's 22 current karaoke manufacturers I've seen listed. For you old timers, how many were there in the 90's?In the mid 90’s Sound Choice routinely put out up to 5 new Karaoke discs per month and employed 75 people. With the actions of those pirating their music, they now employ less than 10 people and their last disc release sold under 800 copies
Last week, I went to Philadelphia, but it was closed.
Here's a link to the actual filing:
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/k-star/Lawsuit.pdf
Prediction: Sound Choice will lose if one person points out that they are members of the KIAA, who have stated that they will not file suit against KIAA members. Copy rights, and trademark rights must be "zealously enforced," which means you can not selectively enforce against certain groups and not others. The KIAA's own stance will scuttle their lawsuit
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/k-star/Lawsuit.pdf
Prediction: Sound Choice will lose if one person points out that they are members of the KIAA, who have stated that they will not file suit against KIAA members. Copy rights, and trademark rights must be "zealously enforced," which means you can not selectively enforce against certain groups and not others. The KIAA's own stance will scuttle their lawsuit
Last week, I went to Philadelphia, but it was closed.
This is an action for trademark infringement and unfair competition
arising under §§ 32 and 43 of the Trademark Act of 1946, 15 U.S.C.
§§ 1114 and 1125. This Court has exclusive jurisdiction over the
subject matter of this action pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1331, in that this
is a civil action arising under the laws of the United States.
This Court further has exclusive jurisdiction pursuant to 28 U.S.C §
1338(a), in that this civil action arises under an Act of Congress
relating to trademarks, and, as to the Plaintiffs’ unfair competition
claim, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1338(b), in that the claim is joined with
a substantial and related claim under the trademark laws of the United
States.
3. Venue is proper in this judicial district pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §
1367(b), because each Defendant is a resident of this judicial district
or conducts business in this judicial district.
arising under §§ 32 and 43 of the Trademark Act of 1946, 15 U.S.C.
§§ 1114 and 1125. This Court has exclusive jurisdiction over the
subject matter of this action pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1331, in that this
is a civil action arising under the laws of the United States.
This Court further has exclusive jurisdiction pursuant to 28 U.S.C §
1338(a), in that this civil action arises under an Act of Congress
relating to trademarks, and, as to the Plaintiffs’ unfair competition
claim, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1338(b), in that the claim is joined with
a substantial and related claim under the trademark laws of the United
States.
3. Venue is proper in this judicial district pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §
1367(b), because each Defendant is a resident of this judicial district
or conducts business in this judicial district.
There's 22 current karaoke manufacturers I've seen listed. For you old timers, how many were there in the 90's?
First there was DKKaraoke, then Pioneer, then Music Maestro....
Then in no particular order All Hits, Dangerous, BackStage, UK Karaoke, Doctor Music.....All of which have gone under or have been bought out...there are many more which were producing crappy renditions musically and quicky went under. Nobody wanted them.
First there was DKKaraoke, then Pioneer, then Music Maestro....
Then in no particular order All Hits, Dangerous, BackStage, UK Karaoke, Doctor Music.....All of which have gone under or have been bought out...there are many more which were producing crappy renditions musically and quicky went under. Nobody wanted them.
What are the causes of piracy?
1. Could be the high price of the item.
2. Showing off with an item they could never afford. To look like they have money.
3. Maybe to take advantage of people that are not educated enough to know the difference between a fake and a real item.
4. Making easy money.
5. Lack of product from limited production.
6. Collector syndrom. Just to have it before someone else.
7. Being the one to have it first to be able to give it to someone else.
I have mixed feelings about the pirate KJs.
If they are in business to make a buck by undercutting me...I'm mad
because I am worth more than I can get because of the undercutters. 
They help my business grow popular because they usually have a cheap system. People that care about how they sound come to me.
They usually get the screaming drunks and 21ers because they have all the Hip hop and rap and they run an anything goes show. People that don't like that atmosphere come to my show.
They usually play in places I won't even walk into. So while they are tied up working in dives cheap...I'm available for the good places. People that don't frequent these dives come to my show.
Multi rigging pirates probably hurt us the most. Just from their numbers. One on one has a somewhat lessor effect.
When I had 3 systems I never undercut anyone to get my jobs. I charged more.
Karaoke pirates actually help me work steady for the above reasons. Does the benefit out weight the bad?
Yeah it probably raises the price we pay per individual song.
1. Could be the high price of the item.
2. Showing off with an item they could never afford. To look like they have money.
3. Maybe to take advantage of people that are not educated enough to know the difference between a fake and a real item.
4. Making easy money.
5. Lack of product from limited production.
6. Collector syndrom. Just to have it before someone else.
7. Being the one to have it first to be able to give it to someone else.
I have mixed feelings about the pirate KJs.
If they are in business to make a buck by undercutting me...I'm mad
because I am worth more than I can get because of the undercutters. They help my business grow popular because they usually have a cheap system. People that care about how they sound come to me.
They usually get the screaming drunks and 21ers because they have all the Hip hop and rap and they run an anything goes show. People that don't like that atmosphere come to my show.
They usually play in places I won't even walk into.
So while they are tied up working in dives cheap...I'm available for the good places. People that don't frequent these dives come to my show. Multi rigging pirates probably hurt us the most. Just from their numbers. One on one has a somewhat lessor effect.
When I had 3 systems I never undercut anyone to get my jobs. I charged more.
Karaoke pirates actually help me work steady
for the above reasons. Does the benefit out weight the bad?Yeah it probably raises the price we pay per individual song.
Several years ago there was a big flood of illegal KJs. Some are still working. Many have failed and faded away. But to recoup their money they may sell to someone else and they could start working.
So will the hard drives eventually fade out of existance or will they keep regenerating and showing up with/as different KJs?
So will the hard drives eventually fade out of existance or will they keep regenerating and showing up with/as different KJs?
So in the 90's there were few serious competitors, and now there's a clutch of companies that are taking advantage of new technologies to get their products to market faster and maintain the same quality or better it, while charging lower prices.Bigdog wrote:There's 22 current karaoke manufacturers I've seen listed. For you old timers, how many were there in the 90's?
First there was DKKaraoke, then Pioneer, then Music Maestro....
Then in no particular order All Hits, Dangerous, BackStage, UK Karaoke, Doctor Music.....All of which have gone under or have been bought out...there are many more which were producing crappy renditions musically and quicky went under. Nobody wanted them.
Piracy is a big problem, we all know this. I just don't think that piracy is the major cause of Sound Choice's sales problems as they insinuate. I'd say 70% of their problems are due to poor business choices, crappy customer service and failing to figure out to take advantage of new technologies. The other 30% I'll ascribe to copyright infringement.
Last week, I went to Philadelphia, but it was closed.
The suit is for trademark infringement and counterfeiting, not copyright infringement, which is what usually is referred to as piracy.
They didn't put Al Capone in jail for killing people/ordering their death or gambling or prostitution or illegal alcohol......
They got him for income tax evasion. He didn't pay taxes on all his illegal income.
They came in the back door.
Sony and the rest of the music publishers might have a leg to stand on. They ultimately own the rights to the music. I'm surprised they haven't helped. Maybe they don't think it's a big deal.
Karaoke piracy doesn't effect the mainstream music industry. Piracy of regular cds does, not karaoke.
So Sound Choice says you illegally used their product. They made the word sweeps that made the karaoke part of it work. Thus the TV screen picture evidence.
They are looking for certain "signature" out of print/circulation songs.
Maybe like the EAGLES Disc SC8125. Now that opens another question.
They were forced to STOP production of that disc.
They NEVER had the proper permission to use the Eagles songs.
Follow me......they will use their illegal Eagle songs to prosecute you for stealing their illegal disc.
Is the Eagles disc still illegal? They never reissued it.
So the rest of the "signature songs" they are looking for may be illegally done by them also.
Sound Choice: Your Honor, they are using "our" illegally issued songs to do their karaoke show.
Make them stop....
Judge: In 19 whatever (stautue of limitations??) when you produced the disc you are using as evidence, You never had legal permission to use the Eagles music, did you? And the big issue before us today is someone using "your" music illegally? The entire basis of your suit?
Sound Choice: Well...yes your Honor but they don't have permission to use our illegal music.
Judge: Case Dismissed. For being STUPID.
I bought that disc the second it came out. So I owned it before it became illegal. Then it was pulled because they found out it/they were illegal. They knew it was illegal before they shipped it out. So I put it on my hard drive because I do have the legally illegal disc.
Am I legally illegally legal because they put out the disc legally... illegally? 
They didn't put Al Capone in jail for killing people/ordering their death or gambling or prostitution or illegal alcohol......
They got him for income tax evasion.
He didn't pay taxes on all his illegal income. They came in the back door.
Sony and the rest of the music publishers might have a leg to stand on. They ultimately own the rights to the music. I'm surprised they haven't helped. Maybe they don't think it's a big deal.
Karaoke piracy doesn't effect the mainstream music industry. Piracy of regular cds does, not karaoke.
So Sound Choice says you illegally used their product. They made the word sweeps that made the karaoke part of it work. Thus the TV screen picture evidence.
They are looking for certain "signature" out of print/circulation songs.
Maybe like the EAGLES Disc SC8125. Now that opens another question.
They were forced to STOP production of that disc.
They NEVER had the proper permission to use the Eagles songs.
Follow me......they will use their illegal Eagle songs to prosecute you for stealing their illegal disc.
Is the Eagles disc still illegal? They never reissued it.
So the rest of the "signature songs" they are looking for may be illegally done by them also.
Sound Choice: Your Honor, they are using "our" illegally issued songs to do their karaoke show.
Make them stop.... Judge: In 19 whatever (stautue of limitations??) when you produced the disc you are using as evidence, You never had legal permission to use the Eagles music, did you? And the big issue before us today is someone using "your" music illegally? The entire basis of your suit?
Sound Choice: Well...yes your Honor
but they don't have permission to use our illegal music. Judge: Case Dismissed. For being STUPID.
I bought that disc the second it came out.
So I owned it before it became illegal. Then it was pulled because they found out it/they were illegal. They knew it was illegal before they shipped it out. So I put it on my hard drive because I do have the legally illegal disc. Am I legally illegally legal because they put out the disc legally... illegally?
I haven't counted lately, but I have way over 1000 discs.
How can I prove they are legally my discs?
The IRS says you need to retain your tax receipts and info for seven years.
My disc collection started 17 years ago. It just so happens that have all my tax stuff for the last..... at least back to 1984.
The majority of people don't act like pack rats.
Point is just because you are in position of a disc....how can you prove you got it legally?
Or your down loaded songs? How can they prove exactly when I bought music? I bought my Eagles disc when it first came out. How can I prove I didn't buy it after they recalled it for being illegal?
Wouldn't the time/date I put the music on my hard drive be an issue?
Those songs were legal then but not now?
What if I have a full set of DK discs that are so scratched and worn out that not one song would actually play? How did I get them on my hard drive? I have the discs to prove ownership. How do I prove how they got on there?
Does it matter if I stole the disc collection from another KJ? I never actually paid for the discs/music. So by doing a 1 to 1 copy it's legally illegal.
There are too many ifs and buts.
Some KJs are suggesting that they would be willing to pay a yearly fee to use the music to combat piracy.
I already paid $50,000 for rights to use my music. Why would I want or need to pay a yearly fee to use it?
Computers are the future. Not CDs. Sound Choice is losing money for not keeping up with technology. Proving their losses are soley because of pirates isn't true.
How can they blame their total losses on 10 KJs and bars?
If the songs are sold/worth $2.50 each and you have 100 illegal songs, that's $250. Hardly a felony. That's small claims court.
The lawsuit warning says they (KJs) were given a chance to rectify their hard drives by purchasing the needed discs/songs. If the KJs did that would they drop the suit against them? After the trial the first thing the KJ is going to do is get his money back by selling the complete hard drive again.
OK you stole from us and everything is good now. What if they just turned over the hard drive? What if the KJ has proof of disc ownership. Can they file a counter-lawsuit against Sound Choice?
How can I prove they are legally my discs?
The IRS says you need to retain your tax receipts and info for seven years.
My disc collection started 17 years ago. It just so happens that have all my tax stuff for the last..... at least back to 1984.
The majority of people don't act like pack rats.
Point is just because you are in position of a disc....how can you prove you got it legally?
Or your down loaded songs? How can they prove exactly when I bought music? I bought my Eagles disc when it first came out. How can I prove I didn't buy it after they recalled it for being illegal?
Wouldn't the time/date I put the music on my hard drive be an issue?
Those songs were legal then but not now?
What if I have a full set of DK discs that are so scratched and worn out that not one song would actually play? How did I get them on my hard drive? I have the discs to prove ownership. How do I prove how they got on there?
Does it matter if I stole the disc collection from another KJ? I never actually paid for the discs/music. So by doing a 1 to 1 copy it's legally illegal.
There are too many ifs and buts.
Some KJs are suggesting that they would be willing to pay a yearly fee to use the music to combat piracy.
I already paid $50,000 for rights to use my music. Why would I want or need to pay a yearly fee to use it?
Computers are the future. Not CDs. Sound Choice is losing money for not keeping up with technology. Proving their losses are soley because of pirates isn't true.
How can they blame their total losses on 10 KJs and bars?
If the songs are sold/worth $2.50 each and you have 100 illegal songs, that's $250. Hardly a felony. That's small claims court.
The lawsuit warning says they (KJs) were given a chance to rectify their hard drives by purchasing the needed discs/songs. If the KJs did that would they drop the suit against them? After the trial the first thing the KJ is going to do is get his money back by selling the complete hard drive again.
OK you stole from us and everything is good now. What if they just turned over the hard drive? What if the KJ has proof of disc ownership. Can they file a counter-lawsuit against Sound Choice?
