If I had only 60 competitors within 50 miles I would be getting $500 a night and I would have myself cloned to be able to do more jobs.
I have at least 150-200 within 25 miles. 99% are crap and use crap. This is keeping my fee lower than it should be. Your waiting list is due majorly to the fact that most of your competition is not as good as you. The fact that they must be hurting the bars they work in would add to this list.
Getting and keeping a safe crowd is just as important. In your area an edited song book is obviously not an issue and something you have never thought about.
Would you be willing to only have the songs I have deleted to attract quality business? I highly doubt it. I don't think your bar owners would like their new friends.
KJs that are not in an area like yours and one more like mine would be very wise to edit. My competition doesn't and it shows in the unruly crowds and other negative issues. Again you have not had my experience in musically induced bad behavior, so you can not understand my reasoning.
This is a matter that I have to use in order to achieve a peaceful crowd. Bar owners are not telling me to put in all the objectionable content because they want it. They don't. Once I explain what it actually does and the riff raff it attracts, they understand. My competition doesn't get it. It shows.
Do you want to sit in a bar/restaurant with the family and be bombarded with that content? It attracts people with a totally different mind set.
My edited format is what sets me above my competition and my quality professional sound system.
Some of them are simply a joke using home stereo equipment and Radio Shack microphones.
Do you really understand how this hurts your fee? How it hurts the reputations of all KJs. How it perpetuates the notion that karaoke is only a joke and for a bunch of drunks that can't sing, screaming into the microphones and acting like jerks.
This is why I'm mad about them. This should be our common ground. This is what needs to be corrected and or eliminated. For the good of all of us that are willing to put forth our kind of time and money. Our quality investment needs to have a better return for us. I'm not happy just to lay down and except these "KJs" as something that I do. They are not in my class or even close. I'm not afraid of them. It's the path of destruction they leave behind.
When a bar owner tells me "They don't want to pay." "We tried karaoke and it didn't work." "We had karaoke and we didn't like the young crowd it brought in." I feel the ramifications in my wallet. They have been poisoned by bad KJs. I'm a KJ and that makes me one of THEM.
Tale of Two Gig Interviews.
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spotlightjr
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:36 pm
- Location: southwest Florida
Bigdog
You have a very valid point with regards to crap kj's hurting the industry. In Florida it's like starting from scratch. For every decent kj down here there's 50 bad ones. The ones who have poor equipment, poor business skills, poor mixing ability, poor negotiating skills, poor attitudes, etc. They are pulling us all down in a way.
Is it impossible to climb out? I dont think so. Though it will take considerable effort. The economy, uninterested bar managers, poor business-minded owners don't help either. It's an uphill battle no matter how you look at it.
I feel as if I'm doing my part in setting the standard for "quality karaoke". I work very hard at it and take pride in what I do as I'm sure many others do. What bothers me probably more than anything is the good kj's that have settled for mediocrity. They have given up so to speak which makes our jobs even tougher. What I mean is this...... I know of "good" kj's in my immediate area that are doing karaoke shows for 100.00. While I walk away from these ridiculous owners and there stupid offers some of my competitors jump at this crap. It's very disturbing to me and makes my job much more difficult.
You have a very valid point with regards to crap kj's hurting the industry. In Florida it's like starting from scratch. For every decent kj down here there's 50 bad ones. The ones who have poor equipment, poor business skills, poor mixing ability, poor negotiating skills, poor attitudes, etc. They are pulling us all down in a way.
Is it impossible to climb out? I dont think so. Though it will take considerable effort. The economy, uninterested bar managers, poor business-minded owners don't help either. It's an uphill battle no matter how you look at it.
I feel as if I'm doing my part in setting the standard for "quality karaoke". I work very hard at it and take pride in what I do as I'm sure many others do. What bothers me probably more than anything is the good kj's that have settled for mediocrity. They have given up so to speak which makes our jobs even tougher. What I mean is this...... I know of "good" kj's in my immediate area that are doing karaoke shows for 100.00. While I walk away from these ridiculous owners and there stupid offers some of my competitors jump at this crap. It's very disturbing to me and makes my job much more difficult.
Consider that there are only two cities (or towns) with a population over 10,000 in this 50 mile radius. There's virtually as many karaoke companies as there are bars.If I had only 60 competitors within 50 miles I would be getting $500 a night and I would have myself cloned to be able to do more jobs.
If everyone around hadn't been to a "real" karaoke show to know the difference I would agree with this. It's not that they don't want the quality, they just don't want to pay for it. If I were to talk with a bar owner here about how I edit my song books to bring in a classier crowd, and how good and expensive my sound system is, he would ignore all that and have only one question "how many paying customers can you bring in?".Do you really understand how this hurts your fee? How it hurts the reputations of all KJs. How it perpetuates the notion that karaoke is only a joke and for a bunch of drunks that can't sing, screaming into the microphones and acting like jerks.
A sad fact is that these people you refer to as crap KJs are not going anywhere and there's nothing you or I can do about it. And in hard economic times they become even more prevalent. And if they can bring just as many paying customers into a bar as you do, and at half the price, they are certainly going to cost you money. It's to this end that I know that it is not as important to edit song books, and spend tons of money on equipment, as it is to find a way to get a large crowd to follow you around. Accomplish this and you can forget about what the other KJs are doing.
In a one horse town with a majority country population, my song book editing tactics may as well be in Greek. When the riff raff does work it's way into your town and it will sooner or later, you will remember the words of a famous song book editing KJ. 
I do this to provide a higher quality crowd that has less potential for trouble. Again not a necessary concern in your location.
Bars can quickly get labeled as a nuisance bar and have their business permantly shut down because of the number of 911 police calls to that location.
There are bar owners that don't care and take big chances by over serving, underage serving and not getting rid of troublemakers. I gave many examples of this already. These owners will do anything for a buck.
I operate my karaoke business to a high standard and that includes the type of crowd I want to attract. The bars I play in never seem to object. And this I can do by editing my book and running a professional no nonsense show. Doesn't mean it's boring.
KJs that claim to run a high energy show have a few problems. One of them is slow songs. Does that mean they don't play slow songs? From what I have read they don't. That equates to editing. NOT PLAYING SLOW SONGS IS EDITING CONTENT. NO different than what I do. There are more slow songs to not play than what I have deleted. No slow songs omits many singers. Jerks & troublemakers don't gravitate to slow songs.
Bar owners that want to run a higher class bar with a decent crowd are my target area. I can play in a hundred smoke filled dive bars within 5 miles of my house and have a full calender in no time. I have no desire to stoop to that level. I respect myself and my business more. It's a free-for-all arena for crap KJs. A real feeding frenzy. I feed further up the food chain.
If everyone around hadn't been to a "real" karaoke show to know the difference I would agree with this. It's not that they don't want the quality, they just don't want to pay for it.
Cheap KJs with crap systems hurt bars, they kill business. I know this and have seen it and followed after them many times. And got paid more. YOU GET THE QUALITY YOU PAY FOR.
The other day the bar owner told me exactly why they don't have karaoke now. It was the type of crowd the other KJ brought in. How and why did they follow him? First it could be his age group and his friends. If so the bar didn't like it. Or it was the music he plays which resulted in the same outcome. My best chance to land this job is by shouting about my edited book that immediately eliminates that problem. That makes me worth the fee I will charge them. I have no idea what they paid him, but I'm guessing I charge more. I can also guarantee I will have the type of crowd they want as a representation of their business reputation. I don't understand why you don't feel the need to care about the bars reputation. A major part of the reputation is determined by the crowd that hangs there. Which is determined by the music they play.
I do this to provide a higher quality crowd that has less potential for trouble. Again not a necessary concern in your location.
Bars can quickly get labeled as a nuisance bar and have their business permantly shut down because of the number of 911 police calls to that location.
There are bar owners that don't care and take big chances by over serving, underage serving and not getting rid of troublemakers. I gave many examples of this already. These owners will do anything for a buck.
I operate my karaoke business to a high standard and that includes the type of crowd I want to attract. The bars I play in never seem to object. And this I can do by editing my book and running a professional no nonsense show. Doesn't mean it's boring.
KJs that claim to run a high energy show have a few problems. One of them is slow songs. Does that mean they don't play slow songs? From what I have read they don't. That equates to editing. NOT PLAYING SLOW SONGS IS EDITING CONTENT. NO different than what I do. There are more slow songs to not play than what I have deleted. No slow songs omits many singers. Jerks & troublemakers don't gravitate to slow songs.
Bar owners that want to run a higher class bar with a decent crowd are my target area. I can play in a hundred smoke filled dive bars within 5 miles of my house and have a full calender in no time. I have no desire to stoop to that level. I respect myself and my business more. It's a free-for-all arena for crap KJs. A real feeding frenzy. I feed further up the food chain.
If everyone around hadn't been to a "real" karaoke show to know the difference I would agree with this. It's not that they don't want the quality, they just don't want to pay for it.
Cheap KJs with crap systems hurt bars, they kill business. I know this and have seen it and followed after them many times. And got paid more. YOU GET THE QUALITY YOU PAY FOR.
The other day the bar owner told me exactly why they don't have karaoke now. It was the type of crowd the other KJ brought in. How and why did they follow him? First it could be his age group and his friends. If so the bar didn't like it. Or it was the music he plays which resulted in the same outcome. My best chance to land this job is by shouting about my edited book that immediately eliminates that problem. That makes me worth the fee I will charge them. I have no idea what they paid him, but I'm guessing I charge more. I can also guarantee I will have the type of crowd they want as a representation of their business reputation. I don't understand why you don't feel the need to care about the bars reputation. A major part of the reputation is determined by the crowd that hangs there. Which is determined by the music they play.
Sadly, this is very true.Bigdog wrote: It's not that they don't want the quality, they just don't want to pay for it.
But to be fair, don't we ALL wish that a "free lunch" was actually free?
I'm in the same situation as most, with loads of mediocre competition using minimal hardware to do a job that cries out for quality.
I'm not in any way saying that my kit is the equivalent of Bigdog but at least I have decent radio mikes (for use by only those I know aren't numpties
), a good mixer Amp and speakers that can shift a goodly amount of air around.Quality costs and people HAVE to be prepared to pay for it.
Sandy
It's not your "information" that I have a problem with. It's the way you state your beliefs as fact. For example, you say that anyone who does not edit their song books is going to end up with a crowd of "riff raft" screaming profanities into the microphone all night. Other professional KJs here, like Dan, Tony, and myself, know that this isn't true. In fact I'm certain that the vast majority of KJs in general know that this isn't true. But you state this as fact and go on some rant to anyone who disagrees. It's just what YOU believe and not fact.Bigdog wrote:Exactly what information I have EVER stated in ANY post was not accurate or correct or meant to hurt anyones karaoke business???
I truly do not believe that you mean to hurt anyone's business. Quite to the contrary. But you come across as THE authority on how to run a professional karaoke show. In fact, you are not THE authority but merely one style of KJ. Your low key, assembly line, style of karaoke is certainly not for everyone. Most KJs like to add some crowd interaction to their shows and can be just as professional in doing so.
So maybe if you try adding a phrase like "I believe" or I think" at the beginning of you post it would give the impression that you are offering advice as opposed to absolute direction.
For example, you say that anyone who does not edit their song books is going to end up with a crowd of "riff raft" screaming profanities into the microphone all night. Other professional KJs here, like Dan, Tony, and myself, know that this isn't true.
I THINK... if you guys play in all country crowds you won't have the problem with offensive subject matter.
I BELIEVE ..that if you cater to the 21ers...your crowd won't be bothered by the offensive subject matter.
So to you and KJs like you...it doesn't apply.
To KJs that are playing to or want to play to mature mixed musical taste crowds it does. If they want to play to a crowd of a higher caliber it does.
Your low key, assembly line, style of karaoke is certainly not for everyone. Most KJs like to add some crowd interaction to their shows and can be just as professional in doing so.
I BELIEVE...many KJs do not know how to run a continuous karaoke show that doesn't use filler music or have to rely on dance sets to keep and entertain a crowd. One that employs all karaoke music in a nonstop fashion.
From my experience singers in my area don't want anything going on during the show that is going to waste their singing time. 30 seconds of filler music between each singer adds up to over 30 minutes of nobody singing. That equals about 8 singers that didn't sing that night.
Add in 4-5-6 dance sets per night and you have more people not singing than people that do because of wasted singing time.
I am a KJ. Not a DJ that plays some karaoke during the night. Many KJs don't understand that concept either. Or how I accomplish it.
To say that I have no crowd interaction???...Give me an example of your professional crowd interaction.
Warning: This may not apply to every KJ and their situation.
Take my personal experience and use it or disregard it.
I THINK... if you guys play in all country crowds you won't have the problem with offensive subject matter.
I BELIEVE ..that if you cater to the 21ers...your crowd won't be bothered by the offensive subject matter.
So to you and KJs like you...it doesn't apply.
To KJs that are playing to or want to play to mature mixed musical taste crowds it does. If they want to play to a crowd of a higher caliber it does.
Your low key, assembly line, style of karaoke is certainly not for everyone. Most KJs like to add some crowd interaction to their shows and can be just as professional in doing so.
I BELIEVE...many KJs do not know how to run a continuous karaoke show that doesn't use filler music or have to rely on dance sets to keep and entertain a crowd. One that employs all karaoke music in a nonstop fashion.
From my experience singers in my area don't want anything going on during the show that is going to waste their singing time. 30 seconds of filler music between each singer adds up to over 30 minutes of nobody singing. That equals about 8 singers that didn't sing that night.
Add in 4-5-6 dance sets per night and you have more people not singing than people that do because of wasted singing time.
I am a KJ. Not a DJ that plays some karaoke during the night. Many KJs don't understand that concept either. Or how I accomplish it.
To say that I have no crowd interaction???...Give me an example of your professional crowd interaction.
Warning: This may not apply to every KJ and their situation.
Take my personal experience and use it or disregard it.
Thank you Bigdog! Now that's a constructive post.
For the record, I'm the only one that stated I have a mainly country crowd. I believe that Dan and Tony are in more diverse areas.
I THINK... if you guys play in all country crowds you won't have the problem with offensive subject matter.
For the record, I'm the only one that stated I have a mainly country crowd. I believe that Dan and Tony are in more diverse areas.
Wouldn't you say that placing yourself in the rotation could also take away 30 minutes singing time from your singers?From my experience singers in my area don't want anything going on during the show that is going to waste their singing time. 30 seconds of filler music between each singer adds up to over 30 minutes of nobody singing. That equals about 8 singers that didn't sing that night.
To me crowd interaction is taking a moment to say a few words about the next singer or ask them a question that helps the crowd get to know them better. People like to fit in and not feel like just another face in the crowd.To say that I have no crowd interaction???...Give me an example of your professional crowd interaction.
Wouldn't you say that placing yourself in the rotation could also take away 30 minutes singing time from your singers?From my experience singers in my area don't want anything going on during the show that is going to waste their singing time. 30 seconds of filler music between each singer adds up to over 30 minutes of nobody singing. That equals about 8 singers that didn't sing that night.
Most singers sing songs they want to sing and I NEVER tell them they should sing something more upbeat. Many singers ask me what should I sing. At my show I tell everyone to sing whatever they want. Be it slow, fast, country, or rock. I don't care if they suck or they are professionals. Their choice of songs NORMALLY are not crowd pleasers. Most are boring. But it's important to them. That's what counts.
My main concern is that they are happy. My nonstop music makes the show more upbeat. 3 seconds on dead air won't kill my show.
I sing songs to keep the rest of the nonsingers happy and in the bar. I don't sing all night and I only sing once in a rotation. I never NORMALLY get to sing 8 times. It's my way of entertaining the entire crowd. To keep nonsingers, which are my primary focus, to the extent that they always out number the singers by 2-3 times. My songs are always upbeat and 99% rock. I want the entire crowd to know that it isn't all country or love songs or the listed rap type songs.
To me crowd interaction is taking a moment to say a few words about the next singer or ask them a question that helps the crowd get to know them better. People like to fit in and not feel like just another face in the crowd.[/quote]To say that I have no crowd interaction???...Give me an example of your professional crowd interaction.
I find many people are embarrsaed to have me even mention their names after a song let alone start getting personal over the microphone. They are happy with singing, getting applause and sitting down. I talk to many people whenever I personally deliver the microphones to them before their song. Each trip out also lets me hear the song mix. Many times I run back to make small adjustments. I can carry on a conversation and listen at thew same time. I have the ability to notice many things/small details normal people would miss. Even while someone is standing beside me and I'm entering a song my ear is always on the song and singer and making sound adjusments, constantly.
Just had the "profit is all" point rammed home, last night.
Pub down the road runs Karaoke Friday Night and Saturday afternoons and have had the same KJ man and wife team for the last 5 years.
They have built up a nice following and usually, the pub is very busy.
However, last night I popped my head in to see how things were and was told by the lady of the team that they were to be replaced by another KJ in a couple of weeks.
SImple reason for change?
The new KJ is £30 cheaper.
I asked Karen, if she wouldn't mind telling me, what they were getting for the night (usually, I wouldn't dream of asking)
She said £90 (about $135 American)
The new guy is doing it for £60 ($90), so a 33% reduction means they are out.
I don't know the new guy but I DO know that Karen and her husband run a good show, with decent equipment and definitely keep up to date on the latest stuff.
And to add insult to injury, the Pub has asked them to fill in next Friday, as the new guy can't do next week!!!
They were all for telling the owner to get stuffed but I said to look around for another gig and if they get it, only then tell her they also can't do the gig next week.
At least, that way, they'll get an extra weeks money out of it and leave with their good name, intact.
Profit is all, I'm afraid and with the recession biting, it's only going to get worse.
Sandy
Pub down the road runs Karaoke Friday Night and Saturday afternoons and have had the same KJ man and wife team for the last 5 years.
They have built up a nice following and usually, the pub is very busy.
However, last night I popped my head in to see how things were and was told by the lady of the team that they were to be replaced by another KJ in a couple of weeks.
SImple reason for change?
The new KJ is £30 cheaper.
I asked Karen, if she wouldn't mind telling me, what they were getting for the night (usually, I wouldn't dream of asking)
She said £90 (about $135 American)
The new guy is doing it for £60 ($90), so a 33% reduction means they are out.
I don't know the new guy but I DO know that Karen and her husband run a good show, with decent equipment and definitely keep up to date on the latest stuff.
And to add insult to injury, the Pub has asked them to fill in next Friday, as the new guy can't do next week!!!
They were all for telling the owner to get stuffed but I said to look around for another gig and if they get it, only then tell her they also can't do the gig next week.
At least, that way, they'll get an extra weeks money out of it and leave with their good name, intact.
Profit is all, I'm afraid and with the recession biting, it's only going to get worse.
Sandy
Here is where the STUPID bar owners are going to make a big mistake. Keep me posted.
The bar is making good money from good KJs. The rest of their nights are probably dead.
So in order to make up for the other dead nights we will get a cheaper KJ. BRILLIANT. WE CAN KILL EVERY NIGHT AND MAKE MORE MONEY ON WHAT WE SAVE FROM THE CHEAP KJ. 
We'll be rich and retired in no time...But not from owning a bar... 
Had it happen to me. The crowd went from 135 people to 35 and then the replacement KJ quit. QUESS WHO THEY CALLED? 1 1/2 years later.... It took a while and people started coming back until they started doing 'BIKE" night and the crowds started dropping down on every night. How much money can 100 people spend every week?
Here is my prediction for that bar.
Within one month, if that KJ sucks the crowd will disappear and they will keep him until the crowd is totally dead. They may even wake up and call the other KJs to come back. Don't count on it. But many times the singers will be so mad they will stop going to the bar altogether.
Once you kill a good crowd, it's dead. They have moved on to other pastures. Possibaly to the old KJs new show.
The night will die within 6 months or less. Maybe even the bar itself. All from being CHEAP.
If it was me I would take that crowd to the closest bar and start over.
It's what they deserve for being STUPID. Stupid business decisions have grave consequences. Bar owners seem to make all of them, all the time.
The bar is making good money from good KJs. The rest of their nights are probably dead.
So in order to make up for the other dead nights we will get a cheaper KJ. BRILLIANT. WE CAN KILL EVERY NIGHT AND MAKE MORE MONEY ON WHAT WE SAVE FROM THE CHEAP KJ. We'll be rich and retired in no time...But not from owning a bar... Had it happen to me. The crowd went from 135 people to 35 and then the replacement KJ quit.
QUESS WHO THEY CALLED? 1 1/2 years later.... It took a while and people started coming back until they started doing 'BIKE" night and the crowds started dropping down on every night. How much money can 100 people spend every week?Here is my prediction for that bar.
Within one month, if that KJ sucks the crowd will disappear and they will keep him until the crowd is totally dead. They may even wake up and call the other KJs to come back. Don't count on it. But many times the singers will be so mad they will stop going to the bar altogether.
Once you kill a good crowd, it's dead. They have moved on to other pastures. Possibaly to the old KJs new show.
The night will die within 6 months or less. Maybe even the bar itself. All from being CHEAP.
If it was me I would take that crowd to the closest bar and start over.
It's what they deserve for being STUPID. Stupid business decisions have grave consequences. Bar owners seem to make all of them, all the time.
