Tale of Two Gig Interviews.

[Bigdog]

Two weeks ago this girl that bartends at a bar down the road came in on Friday night. Tells me her boss might be looking to do karaoke again and she told me who they had before.

His back ground. He worked at the place I do on Fridays and he did Thursday and Saturday. Both nights failed.

He worked at the bar down the road and that night failed. IT'S HIM and his crap system and his singing of 3-4-5 songs per rotation. He's the star.

Bar #1... ANOTHER SPORTS BAR..... I'm already sick to my stomach ache about that. ..I went in to talk to the owner. Asked the bartender if he was around..no but somebody else is. I told her about the girl and them maybe wanting to do karaoke again. She goes in the back to talk to "Joe." She came back out and told me he doesn't want to pay to do it.

From my experience I already know two things like a big red flag waving in my face. #1 Bar owner is probably a jerk. #2 He's telling me without saying it...That we tried karaoke once and it didn't work.

In english that means the crap KJ we had couldn't get a crowd and we wasted our money on him. So karaoke won't work in this bar. And all KJs are the same.

Since he never came out and she was way too interested in her soap opera, I thanked her and left. Talking to her would have been like talking to a grapefruit.

Bar #2...Fairly new real nice big bar restaurant. Has many different rooms (too chopped up) and a fairly small bar area. Went in to scope it out before I talked to anyone. Had a coke at the bar and went to the mens room. On the way out I was nebbing around the other rooms and saw a waitress sweeping the floor. I asked her if they had any entertainment. She has no idea why I'm there or asking. She thinks that I'm a potential new steady customer. She spilled her guts perfectly.

She told me they had karaoke on Tuesdays and they didn't like the young crowd it brought in. Hmmmm....IMAGINE THAT...

In english that means the KJ was a punk that played "anything goes." The crowd he attracted probably was too out of control for the type of cliental they want to attract.

The type of music you play determines the type of crowd you get.

So I take this VALUABLE INFO and decide to talk to the manager who was sitting at the bar doing paperwork.

What was my opening and main topic???? MY EDITED song book....WHY???... Because I talked to the girl and she told me about the young crap crowd. She also told me they were thinking about a Frank Sinatra impersonator. (What kind of crowd would that attract? Right up my alley. ) So I used this to my advantage. I told him about my lack of F Bombs and Hip Hop and angry rock songs. I also told him about my all oldies book. Both of which will not attract a kiddy crowd of drunken jerks. He seemed to be more interested after that info.

NICE PLACES don't want crap out of control crowds. If you want to play in dives...they won't care. If you want to play NICE places..they do.

Learn this lesson or stay unemployed. You decide.

He happily gave me the name of the lady to talk to at the local corporate office. She hires all the entertainment.

I'll call her tomorrow. I'll have a list of reference phone numbers of my happy bar owners. And the places I play are all nice. A big franchise bar/restaurant chain and a big brand new bar like theirs and a major hotel chain.

But did everyone understand everything that was said and done and why? See the perception CRAP KJs give all of us that aren't CRAP. It's an up hill battle to over come their bad reputation. The bar owners that were burnt by them are real leary of taking a chance on losing more of their hard earned money. Karaoke has left a bad tatse in their mouths and I really can't blame them.

That is what is so bad about following a crap KJ. You really have to do a great selling job of yourself and how it will be different this time.

I hate crap KJs. Are you starting to understand why????

THEY HURT ALL OF US. Not maybe...they do.

[Bigdog]

Crap KJs are like a nuclear explosion. Nobody can get near the place because of their fallout

[wiseguy]

Bigdog, I read your posts mainly for their amusement value. The KJs here that have been in the business for awhile know how full of crap you are. Maybe the others are just too polite to say so.

To start with, and believe me on this one, you are not more successfully than I am and probably not as successful as I am. It's easy to ascertain this from your posts. You are out soliciting gigs when I haven't had to do this in years. I turn them down on a regular basis. But wait... how could this be possible when I don't censor my song books? Very easily.

I play at "nice" establishments and to basically younger crowds that are not the heathen, devil worshiping, constantly cursing, trouble making, miscreants, that you portray them to be. They are well behaved, respectful, young adults. They don't scream profanities over the mic and they very rarely perform the hard core songs. I don't have to censor them as they censor themselves.

The people at my shows have fun. They don't just simply enjoy themselves. If it were any other way I'd quit the business. Fights at my shows are very rare. I have yet to hear of anyone ever bringing a gun into the bar. Racism is virtually unheard of. These people would not sing a song if they thought it would offend someone else. Young crowd DOES NOT equal anything goes.

Let's talk about loyal followers and how well liked we are. I have quite a few regulars who have been following me since I started out many years ago. The people who come to my shows are not customers, they are friends. Even if I just met them I will treat them like I've known them forever. When a new person comes in and I can tell that they don't know anyone there I will have one of the regulars invite them to come sit at their table with them. That is if the regular didn't already take the initiative to do this on their own.

A couple of times each year I throw a big outdoor karaoke party for all my singers. It always has a good turnout. It's my way of giving back some for all the support these fine people have given me throughout the years. A few years back these people got together and threw me a surprise party and presented me with a gold plaque of appreciation with all their names engraved in it.

Yes Bigdog it's very plain to see that you run a very boring karaoke show, for very boring people, in very boring places. It's evident that you have a real phobia when it comes to younger crowds. Maybe you're just afraid that you couldn't control a crowd of people with energy. In my circle you would be considered an "old fogie". Not a bad thing just a boring thing. Your advice, outside of system hardware, simply teaches others how to be boring. Luckily, I don't think many people listen to you.

I already know what your response to this post will be, A repeat of your same old boring stuff. Have at it.

[Bigdog]

Having just voluntarily quit 3 steady smoking jobs took me from 6 nights a week to 4. (I picked 1 up already.) I want to get 1 more night, preferably a Saturday night.

Why don't you show us how good you really are and quit 3 very well established (1-14 years, 1-9 1/2 years and 1-2 1/2 years.) nights a week and see how long it takes you to replace them.

I can guarantee they all want me back.

Most KJs don't have 3 established jobs to quit. Now that's amusing.

Show me any KJ that has quit 3 jobs in 1 1/2 months. That puts me down almost $2000 a month.

I have had offers for jobs but not in places I want to work. And I am only interested in non smoking jobs from here on out. Not jobs with a flight of steps. Not any dive just to say I have a job. This area is saturated and we have to claw and fight fo every job. It's very cut throat. Stupid bar owners choose cheap over quality. I can not control their stupidity.

The first job I stopped at today was not as nice as I was lead to believe. Not a dive, but not fantastic. It was OK. He was ruined be a bad KJ.

Maybe in a Morman state or Christian college town 21ers are all normal. In the real world, the rest of the country it ain't so. Maybe you live in an area that has a low crime rate. My area is average as far as crime. But drug usage is becoming more of a problem all over.

I have worked right down the road from a 30 and under bar. The police staging area is in their parking lot. Always trouble. Not from the old fogies.

I have some 21ers that are very respectable always clap the loudest and edit their language. They are a minority. One's dad owns a bar (I use to play there years ago. It's the bar I quit bacause of the bad bartender and 3 weeks later her boyfriend stabbed someone) and has an anything Goes KJ. I have heard they have many dead karaoke nights.

Bigdog, I read your posts mainly for their amusement value. The KJs here that have been in the business for awhile know how full of crap you are. Maybe the others are just too polite to say so.

If I was making this stuff up you would have a right to say that. Everything I'm relating is from things that have happened directly to me or I have heard from very reliable singer and KJ sources. Both of these places were financially hurt from bad KJs. I didn't make it up they told me. The one also said they didn't like the YOUNG crowd the KJ brought in. Not the OLD fogie crowd. So that tells me he played to and catered to and had friends that were young. IT cost him his job. I didn't. His crowd did. The type of music you play determines the crowd you attract. NOT the age of the KJ. The age of the music.

To start with, and believe me on this one, you are not more successfully than I am and probably not as successful as I am. It's easy to ascertain this from your posts. You are out soliciting gigs when I haven't had to do this in years. I turn them down on a regular basis. But wait... how could this be possible when I don't censor my song books? Very easily.

You may very well be in an area that is not as saturated with crap KJs. Most people on there forums don't believe what I talk about because they haven't had these experiences. Doesn't mean they will never have them. If you are getting daily job offers you are lucky.

Tell me how you evaluate your competition.

Are they all on your level? Mine isn't.

How many are really bad?

How many are so-so?

How many are better than you?

I play at "nice" establishments and to basically younger crowds that are not the heathen, devil worshiping, constantly cursing, trouble making, miscreants, that you portray them to be.

I get them that ask for every M&M, every hip hop and angry rock song and when I don't have them they sing Johnny Cash. Makes no sense. But it tells me they had a crowd "F BOMB shock treatment" in mind and I foiled their plans. A show hi-jacking was averted by the edited song book.

Young crowd DOES NOT equal anything goes.

I won't play to an all young crowd. If that makes me a fogie...oh well. The chances of trouble are much less with a more mixed age or older crowd.

Racism is virtually unheard of. These people would not sing a song if they thought it would offend someone else. Young crowd DOES NOT equal anything goes.

What country is that in??? I worry about some punk redneck singing the "N" word songs to start something. Just because. Thinking it's cute or funny.

Let's talk about loyal followers and how well liked we are. I have quite a few regulars who have been following me since I started out many years ago.

I have played in an area of about a 35 mile circle from my house. So loyal followers are not traveling 20-30-40 miles to drink & sing. They may go from one side of town to another. They don't want to go 3-5 miles. My singers have a life too.

If I wanted to know ANYTHING about doing karaoke shows and karaoke equipment, I would want to talk to and emulate someone like me. If that's amusing have a ball. I certainly wouldn't take advice from any of my competition because they can't do what I do. They are trying but it isn't working. If I was starting over again today, I wouldn't change anything.

Exactly what information I have EVER stated in ANY post was not accurate or correct or meant to hurt anyones karaoke business???

The world is full of skeptics, liars and BSers. I'm not one of them.

[Bigdog]

Actually I went over to a new bar opening in the mall 5 minutes away to drop off some info a month ago and 2 today. So I talked to 3 people in over ......Ones that I have contacted over 2-3 years. The 4 jobs I have now searched me out to play there.

Today I was in a totally new upscale area (new housing and shopping building up.) I don't expect bar owners to be psychic.

Let's examine one more thing. I haven't had any paid advertisement for years. No phone book listing or web site. All word of mouth. I don't ever plan to have a web site or do any paid advertising again.

I will still continue to work steady 5 nights a week as soon as I find 1 more.

[Bigdog]

I started this thread to show other KJs how it is to follow a crap KJ and what real KJs have to over come because of them.

I don't think it's too amusing to mop up after jerks. Jerks can't keep jobs.

The power of being good will always matter when it comes to working steady and making money.

[Sabrina59]

I find it fascinating how the "bar dynamics" differ from area to area. In BD's area they are less than desirable, but in WG's neck of the woods they are/act like they should.

My area is rather mixed. The only >30 bar has two bouncers on weekends, and one during the week. My place has a mix, but if any trouble is started it is usually by the >30 crowd. There is no bouncer, per se, but one of the KJ's is an ex pro-wrestler.

I think a karaoke show should be about fun. That is what I stress at my show. I don't care how well you sing and neither do my regulars. But I do care that you have an enjoyable evening and have fun. If it isn't fun ... why do it.

It sounds as though you have some very special regulars, WG, and that is very commendable. I like how you have a regular befriend a newbie ... I'll use that if you don't mind.

I've no seen much racism at the bar I go to ... if I did, I probably wouldn't be a regular there! If there are Hispanic folks in the bar I'll usually break out one of my Spanish songs. They appreciate it and the rest of the crowd doesn't mind it. Sometimes they'll even get up to sing a Spanish song of their own, and it's perfectly fine. We have every color under the rainbow there, and no problems.

There are quite a few of us who don't care for the yelly, screamy, rap crap and thankfully we aren't assaulted by it very often. When someone does start up one of those songs there are quite a few of us who just head outside. No biggie. However, I do know that some folks do not become regulars because of it.

I would like to know more about the karaoke parties you have, WG. Care to share any details? Sounds like a really good idea. I'm on 27 acres right now ... that is more than do-able.

[Bigdog]

I find it absolutely amazing given the fact that wiseguy "claims" to have an unedited book that NO 21ers ever sing the new "F BOMB" version of Total Eclipse of The Heart and nobody sings Creep with the goodies and Kid Rock & M&M and nobody EVER drops the bomb? And every 21er male doesn't try to sing all the rap songs listed.

Sounds like a Sunday School class, not a bar.

Now I think someone is making things up. I do not believe that 21ers are any different in any part of the country. Jerks are everywhere...just add alcohol.

I don't get them every night, but I get them too much.

I also don't believe that every KJ in the rest of the country is operating at my level. And only in my imaginary area they are different. I don't believe that bar owners in the rest of the country are MBAs in bar ownership.

[DanG2006]

At my show, when I was doing a bar, for the most part, I had two people who sang Eminem but they sang it rarely. They mostly stuck with bubble gum top 40. Yeah I would occassionally get a Kid ROck Song, even I sing Kid Rock sometmes but I stay away from his mkost offensive songs. I sing Only God Knows Why, All Summer Long and Lonely Road Of Faith.

[Bigdog]

Dan...how does the majority of the crowd react to the M&M songs?

Love it? ...Like It?....Hate it?

[wiseguy]

Why don't you show us how good you really are and quit 3 very well established (1-14 years, 1-9 1/2 years and 1-2 1/2 years.) nights a week and see how long it takes you to replace them.

Firstly, I would never quit a place just because they exercise their legal right to allow smoking. I'm way too loyal for that and apparently you aren't. But if tomorrow 3 of the bars I do suddenly went out of business I would have them replaced within a week. I have a waiting list.

You may very well be in an area that is not as saturated with crap KJs. Most people on there forums don't believe what I talk about because they haven't had these experiences. Doesn't mean they will never have them. If you are getting daily job offers you are lucky.

Tell me how you evaluate your competition.

Are they all on your level? Mine isn't.

How many are really bad?

How many are so-so?

How many are better than you?

Around here everyone and his brother is doing karaoke. They range from kids performing with toys for free drinks to top quality KJs with great sound systems. That's about all the evaluating I care to do. I'm certainly not going to bad mouth them and call them "crap KJs". I really have no interest in how others run their shows or what they run them with. It has no bearing on my success.

There are two areas that no other company in my area can compete with me on. The amount of unique song titles I have, and more importantly, my ability to make personal fiends of my crowds. I not only know their names, I know their wife's or girlfriend's names, their kids names, where they live, where they work, what they drink, their favorite artist, and so on. They call me at home, I invite them over to practice songs that they don't want to try for the first time in public. I do free shows for their charities when asked.

These are the things that have a large crowd of regulars show up wherever I play. Which in turn is why I have no trouble staying as busy as I want to. My motivation for being in this business has never been about money. It's not even my main source of income. My motivation has always been brining fun into peoples lives.

What country is that in??? I worry about some punk redneck singing the "N" word songs to start something. Just because. Thinking it's cute or funny.

I don't know where you live but if I lived around people like this I'd move!

If I wanted to know ANYTHING about doing karaoke shows and karaoke equipment, I would want to talk to and emulate someone like me.

If i emulated you I would not only have no shows, I would have no friends.

I find it absolutely amazing given the fact that wiseguy "claims" to have an unedited book that NO 21ers ever sing the new "F BOMB" version of Total Eclipse of The Heart and nobody sings Creep with the goodies and Kid Rock & M&M and nobody EVER drops the bomb? And every 21er male doesn't try to sing all the rap songs listed.

Again, I'm very glad I don't live in your part of the country. I live in an area where country music is predominant. There are no street gangs and kids don't hang out on the street corners blasting Rap music. Kid Rock and Eminem songs are done occasionally but I use the radio edit versions and the singers only sing what's on the screen. It's far from Sunday School and also far from your old fogies style of entertainment.

[wiseguy]

I would like to know more about the karaoke parties you have, WG. Care to share any details? Sounds like a really good idea. I'm on 27 acres right now ... that is more than do-able.

I live on a few acres outside of the city limits where I set up my high powered outdoor sound system. We build a bonfire and usually either roast a pig or barbecue a bunch of chickens. Everyone brings a covered dish. I'll have a couple of kegs of beer on ice and coolers full of soft drinks. I have some of my regulars trained to run the sound system so I'm not stuck there the whole time. It's always a good time and has been known to go on for 24 hours or more.

[Sabrina59]

If it turns out that we don't have to move I just might give this a try. Don't know about the 24-hour part ... I'm getting a little long in the tooth to do something like that!

[Bigdog]

Why don't you show us how good you really are and quit 3 very well established (1-14 years, 1-9 1/2 years and 1-2 1/2 years.) nights a week and see how long it takes you to replace them.

Firstly, I would never quit a place just because they exercise their legal right to allow smoking. I'm way too loyal for that and apparently you aren't. But if tomorrow 3 of the bars I do suddenly went out of business I would have them replaced within a week. I have a waiting list.

The competition must really be bad or you are the only game in town.

I quit for health reasons after a 4 1/2 week notice. If they went back to non smoking I'm sure they would take be back in a heart beat. They made a business decision to keep smoking. I made a business decision to keep my health. Is anything more important to you? They don't care about your health so why should I remain loyal and die. I still have my sinus infection now this is going on 7 months.
Around here everyone and his brother is doing karaoke. They range from kids performing with toys for free drinks to top quality KJs with great sound systems. That's about all the evaluating I care to do. I'm certainly not going to bad mouth them and call them "crap KJs". I really have no interest in how others run their shows or what they run them with. It has no bearing on my success.

Does it have a bearing on how much you can charge? I can't get what I'm worth because of the bad KJs charging so little just to work at all.
There are two areas that no other company in my area can compete with me on. The amount of unique song titles I have, and more importantly, my ability to make personal fiends of my crowds. I not only know their names, I know their wife's or girlfriend's names, their kids names, where they live, where they work, what they drink, their favorite artist, and so on. They call me at home, I invite them over to practice songs that they don't want to try for the first time in public. I do free shows for their charities when asked.

I would rather have a smaller list of unoffensive songs that sound great coming out of a quality system. A small town where everyone knows everyone else isn't in my cards. I live in the 'burbs where we have to lock the doors at night. But the riff raff from the city keeps creeping farther outwards. Personal safety is always an issue. This is why I edit. You have all the songs they like but nobody to sing them, so it doesn't matter if you list them because they won't get sung anyway. I don't imagine a 99% country crowd would be rapping too much. If I list them they want to sing them. This would explain why your 21ers aren't singing the swearing songs.

I have all the info I need to know now. Since everyone in town is either your best friend or relative you can not answer these questions honestly because they all read everything you write. I understand your position now. You are in CYA mode to not hurt anyones feelings. This doesn't change the fact that what I am saying is true even in your world. I'm telling people what happens in the real unsugar coated dog eat dog world of karaoke. I'm willing to bet that more KJs see my world than yours.

I'll keep your answers confidential if you want to PM the real truth. If it's any consolation, there are people (competition) I know that read this site. They should know these things to be true and they have probably faced them already or will. I'm tired of not making the money I am worth because of ..I'll say it again..CRAP KJs. If you're getting all your worth consider yourself very lucky and in a minority.

Let's get some more replys from other REAL working KJs.

ARE YOU MAKING ALL THE MONEY YOU FEEL YOU ARE WORTH BECAUSE OF A SURPLUS OF LESS THAN ADEQUATE COMPETITION PLAYING IN YOUR AREA FOR PEANUTS?

[wiseguy]

The competition must really be bad or you are the only game in town.

There are over sixty karaoke companies (I use the word "companies" loosely in many cases) within a fifty mile radius of where I'm sitting. Some of them are simply a joke using home stereo equipment and Radio Shack microphones. Others have systems just as good as mine and have been in the business for a long time.

It's a very basic fact that bar owners have to make money. Having a great sound system does not make them money, having a great song selection does not make them money. edited song books do not make them money, bringing in a large group of people who buy a lot of drinks does make them money. This is how I can write my own ticket.

I quit for health reasons after a 4 1/2 week notice. If they went back to non smoking I'm sure they would take be back in a heart beat. They made a business decision to keep smoking. I made a business decision to keep my health. Is anything more important to you? They don't care about your health so why should I remain loyal and die. I still have my sinus infection now this is going on 7 months.

After 16 years of second hand smoke exposure any damage that is going to be done has already been done. It's a little late to be worrying about that now. No sinus infection lasts 7 months. Seriously, you need to consult a specialist and not trust something like this to your family doctor.

Does it have a bearing on how much you can charge? I can't get what I'm worth because of the bad KJs charging so little just to work at all.

I don't think it's the quality of the KJs (or lack thereof) that has brought down the going rate. It's more due to the quantity. Whenever a market is flooded with competition the rates drop dramatically. It sucks that the going rate for a four hour show is less than half of what it was 16 years ago.

I have all the info I need to know now. Since everyone in town is either your best friend or relative you can not answer these questions honestly because they all read everything you write. I understand your position now. You are in CYA mode to not hurt anyones feelings.

That's nothing but BS! I don't think any of my crowd even knows about this forum. I'm certain that none of them are members. But if any of you guys are members speak up and let me know here.

I'm definitely not afraid of hurting anyone's feelings. And I get the occasional jerk at my shows just like everybody else. But this type of person learns very quickly that they are unwelcome and would be wise to move on. I don't sugar coat anything. I just live in a much more civilized part of the country than you do.

Don't be waiting for any PM's from be. You will get the truth right here in the open forum.