What would you say is the "going rate" for a 4 hour Karaoke show? I have heard anywhere from $125 - $200 for the night. I could use some input on this so I don't price myself out of gigs.
Thanx
Rates
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stevesdjservice
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:03 pm
Is this a simple question? Yes..... but the answer is very complicated.
Your price will be determined by many factors.
Much of which you will be in control of & some you won't.
I am worth way more than I ask. But because my area is saturated with KJ wannabes that don't have a clue about karaoke or sound or mixing or business and they can not work because they suck...the only way they can ever even come close to working is to be so cheap they look like a bargin to some know-nothing bar owner. Bar owners fall for this ploy everytime.
How are your mixing skills?
How good is your sound system?
How fair is your rotation?
How big is your selection?
How good are your people skills?
How much experience do you have?
How good is your competition?
How big is your loyal singer following?
Now answer the question as to how much you want to charge...based on what? Can you produce a big crowd week after week?
I have seen it time and again..bar owners pay for a bargin KJ and he kills the crowd permanently. But the bar owner is getting such a bargin price they are baffled and mystified in to thinking about all the money they are saving by hiring the jerk instead of a competent KJ. They never think of all the money the jerk KJ is costing them. Week after week. They treat people unfairly by catering to their friends, (the only small loyal following they will ever have) This chases good quality singers away by the truckload. But the bar owner loves the bargin price.
I want to see results and the only result that matters is what's in the cash register at the end of the night. Can you do it or not...??? it's that simple. Bar owners will never get it.
Your price will be determined by many factors.
Much of which you will be in control of & some you won't.
I am worth way more than I ask. But because my area is saturated with KJ wannabes that don't have a clue about karaoke or sound or mixing or business and they can not work because they suck...the only way they can ever even come close to working is to be so cheap they look like a bargin to some know-nothing bar owner. Bar owners fall for this ploy everytime.
How are your mixing skills?
How good is your sound system?
How fair is your rotation?
How big is your selection?
How good are your people skills?
How much experience do you have?
How good is your competition?
How big is your loyal singer following?
Now answer the question as to how much you want to charge...based on what? Can you produce a big crowd week after week?
I have seen it time and again..bar owners pay for a bargin KJ and he kills the crowd permanently. But the bar owner is getting such a bargin price they are baffled and mystified in to thinking about all the money they are saving by hiring the jerk instead of a competent KJ. They never think of all the money the jerk KJ is costing them. Week after week. They treat people unfairly by catering to their friends, (the only small loyal following they will ever have) This chases good quality singers away by the truckload. But the bar owner loves the bargin price.
I want to see results and the only result that matters is what's in the cash register at the end of the night. Can you do it or not...??? it's that simple. Bar owners will never get it.
One more question for you.
Your handle says "StevesDJservice"
I take this to mean that your first passion is DJing and karaoke may be an add on to be able to work steady.
Are you just jumping on the karaoke bandwagon for lack of DJ work? I know a few around here that have done exactly that. They can't even work steady at either one.
How much do you charge to Dj and what determined that price?
Is there still steady work for DJs?
I remember DJs around here used to get $3-400 any night of the week. Not so now.
Your handle says "StevesDJservice"
I take this to mean that your first passion is DJing and karaoke may be an add on to be able to work steady.
Are you just jumping on the karaoke bandwagon for lack of DJ work? I know a few around here that have done exactly that. They can't even work steady at either one.
How much do you charge to Dj and what determined that price?
Is there still steady work for DJs?
I remember DJs around here used to get $3-400 any night of the week. Not so now.
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stevesdjservice
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:03 pm
I have always provided Karaoke along with DJing. I am not the "bandwagon" type of person. Music is a passion with me, always has been. I started out DJing for my Shrine center about 6 years ago. I came to realize that people enjoyed my work along with my knowledge of music. For personal reasons I will not go into here, I can use the extra money that a second job provides. Unlike taking a part-time job flipping burgers, DJing and Karaoke happen to be something I love. If I can get paid for doing it, then Bonus for me! I am sure my equipment will never compare with the set-up you have (from your previous posts, I gather that no one ever will), but it sounds great and works for me and my audience. I base my DJ jobs on how many hours, distance of travel, duties (ie: a wedding requires a lot more planning and work than does , say a Luau party) and what is entailed. I have found that the Karaoke rate varies with the bar owner. One guy says $200 a night is too much, and another thinks it's a bargain. I have approx. 90,000 songs, so I never run out of choices for my singers. I am VERY fair with my rotation and have had very few complaints (those usually come from some drunk who loses track of time and thinks he should have been back up already). There is a lot of competition here in Tampa, but we are also the bar capitol of the world! LOL! There are plenty of jobs to go around. My question was just a general inquiry, but I appreciate your attention to detail. You are obviously the best there is (you at least come off that way), and I thank you for your response. All that being said, can anyone give me a general answer to my original question??
Thanx!
Thanx!
Steve's DJ/Karaoke Service
"Music Is The Soundtrack Of Our Lives"
"Music Is The Soundtrack Of Our Lives"
Bigdog is very close to the answer you are looking for. It depends on the market. In my area owners think they can get a decent show for $50 and then the good ones who are serious about their sound, song selection, rotation practices and their professionalism are stuck having to work for peanuts when they should be earning more. If you have the quality I don't see why you can't charge within the price range you initially said in your original post. If the owner says that's too much then you know that the going rate is much lower.
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stevesdjservice
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:03 pm
Thanx Dan. I do not think anyone works for $50 around here, but I guess it is possible. I think there are a lot of bar owners out there who are clueless about quality and just want to save a buck. I guess I could phrase my question another way by saying have you turned down a job because you KNOW you are worth more than the owner wants to pay? I understand this opens the door for the so-called "scab" KJs, but should you have standards that you are not willing to compromise and earn a reputation as a "cheap" KJ?
Steve's DJ/Karaoke Service
"Music Is The Soundtrack Of Our Lives"
"Music Is The Soundtrack Of Our Lives"
Why do some bar owners think $200 is a bargin? Have they had KJs that charge more? Where they worth the money?
I had some jealous KJs telling bar owners I charged double of what my actual rate was. They did it just so the bar owner wouldn't call me.
The bar owners that don't want to pay a reasonable rate deserve to have jerk KJs. $50 a night buys you a guy with livingroom stuff that has no selection and a system that sets up in five minutes. Doesn't have a clue and could care less if the bar owner makes any money.
If a bar owner tells me what "they" pay and it's not what I am asking ...see ya. I have had bar owners tell me that they will only pay XXX$$$$. Good then keep the crap and no income that you have now and i'll work down the street for someone that understands that you have to pay for quality.
I have a set price. If you want what I have to offer then you will pay it. If you want a bargin KJ...it's not me. The world is full of unemployed cheap KJs. I am willing to work with a new bar on the price until the crowd gets established. And when I say it's time for full money...it's time.
As I said I can give you names and numbers of KJs that can and do kill every place they work. Are they worth the bargin price? As far as I'm concerned the bar would be better off without any entertainment than to have someone cheap that will chase away every person that use to come.
Having good musical knowledge will help you. You sound like someone I can respect. Understand that at least around here...the karaoke business is very cut-throat. It has to do with an over abundance of very cheap, uncaring KJs that just want to get a ride on the karaoke band wagon. They don't care about their sound or their business or the bars business. It's all about how much EZ money can I make. These types never last and any money they did spend is totally wasted. But because they can not find work for a decent price they scab out for any money they can get.
I know of a KJ that took over a bar I used to play (few years later). He literally was doing it for dinner and drinks. If you think that this clown is in my league or even close to it...you're very wrong. I wouldn't let him even look at my system. But guys like this are everywhere screwing it up for legitimate KJs like us. It's why bar owners think we should all be cheap. No he can't produce and keep a crowd...that's why he's a bargin KJ. He sucks.
I have set my price based on what I feel i'm worth. Pay it or find someone else. I won't waiver on my price. Every bar pays me the same price. I have built a high quality reputation. I can deliver and keep a crowd. Been doing it 5 nights a week for 16 years. I'm worth more than I ask but because of the jerks, if I asked for what I was really worth I would be sitting at home every night. So I have to make a compromise and lower my fee. But I'm on the high end of the going rate.
It comes down to what you feel your time and expertise is worth. And how bad the rest of your competition is. Now let's throw in the bad economy and things start to change. We all may have to lower our price if the crowds keep getting smaller and we want to keep the jobs we have.
Are the bar owners starting to panic yet????
Cheap KJs tell me they suck by the amount of money they are willing to work for. If you're good you work steady and get paid what you are worth. If you suck you may work steady because you are cheap. And you found a sucker bar owner to hire you. In the end they pay for their cheapness by not making all the money they could be making with a quality KJ.
I would rather pay a quality, plumber, roofer, block layer, carpenter, KJ or band a little more to know I am receiveing a quality product. If you think about the little money difference there is between me and a crappy KJ, it's not that much more to go first class. And the results speak for themselves in the cash register.
I had some jealous KJs telling bar owners I charged double of what my actual rate was. They did it just so the bar owner wouldn't call me.
The bar owners that don't want to pay a reasonable rate deserve to have jerk KJs. $50 a night buys you a guy with livingroom stuff that has no selection and a system that sets up in five minutes. Doesn't have a clue and could care less if the bar owner makes any money.
If a bar owner tells me what "they" pay and it's not what I am asking ...see ya. I have had bar owners tell me that they will only pay XXX$$$$. Good then keep the crap and no income that you have now and i'll work down the street for someone that understands that you have to pay for quality.
I have a set price. If you want what I have to offer then you will pay it. If you want a bargin KJ...it's not me. The world is full of unemployed cheap KJs. I am willing to work with a new bar on the price until the crowd gets established. And when I say it's time for full money...it's time.
As I said I can give you names and numbers of KJs that can and do kill every place they work. Are they worth the bargin price? As far as I'm concerned the bar would be better off without any entertainment than to have someone cheap that will chase away every person that use to come.
Having good musical knowledge will help you. You sound like someone I can respect. Understand that at least around here...the karaoke business is very cut-throat. It has to do with an over abundance of very cheap, uncaring KJs that just want to get a ride on the karaoke band wagon. They don't care about their sound or their business or the bars business. It's all about how much EZ money can I make. These types never last and any money they did spend is totally wasted. But because they can not find work for a decent price they scab out for any money they can get.
I know of a KJ that took over a bar I used to play (few years later). He literally was doing it for dinner and drinks. If you think that this clown is in my league or even close to it...you're very wrong. I wouldn't let him even look at my system. But guys like this are everywhere screwing it up for legitimate KJs like us. It's why bar owners think we should all be cheap. No he can't produce and keep a crowd...that's why he's a bargin KJ. He sucks.
I have set my price based on what I feel i'm worth. Pay it or find someone else. I won't waiver on my price. Every bar pays me the same price. I have built a high quality reputation. I can deliver and keep a crowd. Been doing it 5 nights a week for 16 years. I'm worth more than I ask but because of the jerks, if I asked for what I was really worth I would be sitting at home every night. So I have to make a compromise and lower my fee. But I'm on the high end of the going rate.
It comes down to what you feel your time and expertise is worth. And how bad the rest of your competition is. Now let's throw in the bad economy and things start to change. We all may have to lower our price if the crowds keep getting smaller and we want to keep the jobs we have.
Are the bar owners starting to panic yet????
Cheap KJs tell me they suck by the amount of money they are willing to work for. If you're good you work steady and get paid what you are worth. If you suck you may work steady because you are cheap. And you found a sucker bar owner to hire you. In the end they pay for their cheapness by not making all the money they could be making with a quality KJ.
I would rather pay a quality, plumber, roofer, block layer, carpenter, KJ or band a little more to know I am receiveing a quality product. If you think about the little money difference there is between me and a crappy KJ, it's not that much more to go first class. And the results speak for themselves in the cash register.
I can't begin to tell you the amount of cheap know-nothing KJs that have gone out of business around here. Flash-in-the-pan, fly-by-nighters that couldn't hold a candle to a real KJ. They bought an expensive hobby that sits in their garage. All thought they could go in to the karaoke business and make a lot of money. But they did it as cheaply as they could. That was their big mistake. Cheap sounds and looks cheap. Can't polish a turd.
When the crowds never materialize and the bar owner doesn't take in enough to pay you....your reputation is nothing......and your asking price keeps going lower until it's not even worth taking your crap out of the glove box. Then you sit at home and wonder why everyone else can get jobs and you can't.
I have had KJs say to me "I don't know how you do it?" They are absolutely right.... They don't and that's why I work and you can't. Because you don't have the first clue about it. You watched me make it look EZ and you thought you could do it.
You don't have my experience. You don't have my mixing ear. You don't have the musical knowledge I have. You don't have my musical talent. You don't know how to use your equipment. You don't and won't spend the kind of money I spent. You won't put in the time required to build a quality business. You don't have my commitment level. And you are a jerk also... That's why you can't find and keep jobs. You never really stood a chance to be like me. Or to build the kind of reputation I have built. As a KJ you are a failure. Deal with it and stay on your couch watching the Biggest Loser.
When the crowds never materialize and the bar owner doesn't take in enough to pay you....your reputation is nothing......and your asking price keeps going lower until it's not even worth taking your crap out of the glove box. Then you sit at home and wonder why everyone else can get jobs and you can't.
I have had KJs say to me "I don't know how you do it?" They are absolutely right.... They don't and that's why I work and you can't. Because you don't have the first clue about it. You watched me make it look EZ and you thought you could do it.
You don't have my experience. You don't have my mixing ear. You don't have the musical knowledge I have. You don't have my musical talent. You don't know how to use your equipment. You don't and won't spend the kind of money I spent. You won't put in the time required to build a quality business. You don't have my commitment level. And you are a jerk also... That's why you can't find and keep jobs. You never really stood a chance to be like me. Or to build the kind of reputation I have built. As a KJ you are a failure. Deal with it and stay on your couch watching the Biggest Loser.
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stevesdjservice
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:03 pm
I am glad I am not one of those "loser" KJ's! I am passionate about my music and I do have that "ear" for sound. I consider a gift. Everyone comes to me when they need info about a certain song or band or musician. Thanx for all of your input. I will let you know how it goes!
keep Rockin!
keep Rockin!
Steve's DJ/Karaoke Service
"Music Is The Soundtrack Of Our Lives"
"Music Is The Soundtrack Of Our Lives"
Just wanted to let you know that I was able to get a new gig because the bar owner was tired of the piece of crap Karaoke Host's rotation practices and fired him and hired me after one of her patrons happened to pop into my other bar this past weekend and told me that the new bar was looking for a new host and told me to tell the owner that she said for me to give her a call.
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stevesdjservice
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:03 pm
That's great. Maybe the crappy KJs are a double edged sword. They initially take the jobs because they work for peanuts, but when the owners see how bad they are, they are more willing to hire the better KJs and pay their prices. Kinda gives them something to compare you to. Once they see how good you are, they will pay any price to keep you! Good luck on that job!
Steve's DJ/Karaoke Service
"Music Is The Soundtrack Of Our Lives"
"Music Is The Soundtrack Of Our Lives"
Keep this in mind whenever you start a new job.
Make absolutely sure you tell them what your final price will be after your price adjustment period is over.
If you want $500 a night make sure they know that's what they will have to pay.
I give a price break to get jobs rolling. They never want to give you any extra money for bringing in a really big crowd. And they think it's your duty to take a cut if the night isn't so good.
If you tell them you will start for $100 a night and never tell them your top price they will think you are pulling a fast one on them.
Lay it all out for them before you ever start. You be the judge on how good the night was. Don't let them tell you.
After I have started to get my full money...there have been times when the crowd just never got big on certain nights. It could have been because of bad weather or the local carnival was in town or the big play off game was on or some other stupid reason that really doesn't have anything to do with me. But in order to keep the job and keep them happy I have given some of the money back as a gesture of good will. Mainly because I know that they haven't even taken in enough to pay me and the bartender.
I don't really think I should or that it is my resposibilty to do so. I do the same quality show whether there are 5 people or 500.
One more thing. If they advertise on their sign that they have karaoke every...I am more willing to work the price with them than with a jerk that doesn't put it on the sign.
As far as other KJs go, especially the crappy ones....if you build a successful karaoke night..everybody wants to take your job.
And it's because they can't do what you did. They think if they can undercut you and take your job that they will be a big shot KJ. In reality..since they can't do it they will never keep the crowd anyway and the job will die...they will say it's because you sabotaged the crowd. NO IT's because YOU SUCK and you always did and always will. See bad KJs can't understand they reason they suck...it's them.
Make absolutely sure you tell them what your final price will be after your price adjustment period is over.
If you want $500 a night make sure they know that's what they will have to pay.
I give a price break to get jobs rolling. They never want to give you any extra money for bringing in a really big crowd. And they think it's your duty to take a cut if the night isn't so good.
If you tell them you will start for $100 a night and never tell them your top price they will think you are pulling a fast one on them.
Lay it all out for them before you ever start. You be the judge on how good the night was. Don't let them tell you.
After I have started to get my full money...there have been times when the crowd just never got big on certain nights. It could have been because of bad weather or the local carnival was in town or the big play off game was on or some other stupid reason that really doesn't have anything to do with me. But in order to keep the job and keep them happy I have given some of the money back as a gesture of good will. Mainly because I know that they haven't even taken in enough to pay me and the bartender.
I don't really think I should or that it is my resposibilty to do so. I do the same quality show whether there are 5 people or 500.
One more thing. If they advertise on their sign that they have karaoke every...I am more willing to work the price with them than with a jerk that doesn't put it on the sign.
As far as other KJs go, especially the crappy ones....if you build a successful karaoke night..everybody wants to take your job.
And it's because they can't do what you did. They think if they can undercut you and take your job that they will be a big shot KJ. In reality..since they can't do it they will never keep the crowd anyway and the job will die...they will say it's because you sabotaged the crowd. NO IT's because YOU SUCK and you always did and always will. See bad KJs can't understand they reason they suck...it's them.
You need to make sure they know what the final price will be and when you expect it to take effect. I usually give them 4 weeks at a reduced rate. That could be subject to change if I,I,I,I,I, think it's a bad night. Not them. After the forth week I expect the full price that we previously discussed.
If I want to take less that is MY decision.
If I want to take less that is MY decision.
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LarryKaraoke
- Posts: 25
- Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:27 pm
- Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada
I'm in Edmonton Alberta, and rates run from $50 to $125. and falling..lol The problem is, a year ago, Edmonton had more Karaoke shows than any 2 other cities in North America put together. Now that we have fallen to a more realistic Karaoke/Bar number, there is a gluttony of KJs. and KJ wannabees..lol. So, I, as a TRAINED Professional Singer/Studio Tech/Musician/DJ/KJ, have to accept what the bars pay. Unfortunately, not all Bar owners understand their business the way they should. That's GOOD for the no name bands and wannabe KJ and DJ, but it makes it real hard for a Quality/Trained pro, to actually get what they are worth. And THAT, is and always has been the nature of the entertainment business.
