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Smart guys

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Bigdog
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Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:15 am

Smart guys

Post by Bigdog »

When you have made well over $750,000 with your karaoke business, as I have, you may be as qualified as I am to give expert karaoke show and equipment advice.

I'll let others on the forum decide who they want to listen to for successful karaoke advice. It's a free country.

Money talks, B.S. walks!!! :wink:


Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

For which part? The talking or the walking?

I have spent about $250,000, maybe more, on my business over the years.

Including sound equipment (real PA systems), vehicles (full size vans) to haul the systems, gasoline, repairs, karaoke music, insurance, office equipment, computers, etc.

I'll wager that 98% of all the working KJs will NEVER spend over $10,000 on their entire karaoke business, in a lifetime. Only about 2% will spend over $10,000.

I have spent more just making equipment repairs than most will ever spend.
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letitrip
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Location: Jackson, WI

Post by letitrip »

Bigdog, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much?? I mean you've started a thread here for no purpose other than to brag how great you are? Really? Let's all give a big round of applause for BigDog. Yet I'm left to wonder why it is that despite being so great and so wonderful and so far prefered to your competition that, as you told us in another thread, you're only able to get $175 for a 4 hour show.

Let's look at how great bigdog is folks. Hmm so great that while he brags about top quality sound he has no idea how to use his equipment (see the thread on compression). If fact compression, a most basic staple of the sound engineers outboard equipment, was referred to by bigdog as "magical effects ". I'm betting you use feedback surpressors too right? Why? IF you know so much about pro-audio equipment and sound engineering you should need nothing more than an EQ to eliminate feedback (check your national shows, they don't use feedback eliminators). Bigdog is so great that he has more singers singing, better quality singers, sings just like the recorded almbus and is in total demand, yet that 175 number still shows up????

I won't get into the pissing match over how much money people make, etc. I've been in this business since January so nope I haven't made the all time totals you have. But know this, you won't see me taking a gig that only pays $175, I'd see that as insulting. And funny this, I have no problems finding venues that pay me what I'm worth (even with the $100/show undercutters running around).

What I can't figure out bigdog is why you feel so threatened by everyone who does things differently than you? Feeling the heat are you? As much as you brag about your greatness and your rep, seems maybe those others in your area are starting to get to you. I mean every time someone disagrees with your opinion of how this business should be conducted, you become venomous just as you have in this thread, essentially seeking to insult this entire community while again praising the wonders of you!!

Nicely done! Three cheers for the god of Karaoke!! ROTFLMAO!!
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

I have decided to remove myself and my comments from this thread. I really just don't have the time to waste on it.
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OnTheMicDJs
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Post by OnTheMicDJs »

I just wish I had the ability to delete previous threads/take back time wasted disputing Bigdog. wiseguy is my hero!
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Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

I didn't start this thread to brag. But thanks for the kind recognition.

It is intended to show existing KJs and KJ wannabes that there are different levels of karaoke show production.

Anyone can be a cheap KJ. That is the majority of the existing KJs. It's almost like...let's see how cheap I can be in business. They buy the cheapest speakers, cheapest microphones, cheapest mixers and amplifiers and wonder why they can not get steady work.

I get $175 because of all of the incompetent cheap KJs in my area. Without exaggerating there are at least 200 KJs in a 20-25 mile circle. 99% 0f these fall into the well under $10,000 investment range. More like under the $5,000 range. Their sound sucks. They play dance music and filler music all night long. They use cheap sounding microphones and shoebox sized speakers without subs. Some even play with one speaker LOL. They can transport their entire system on the front seat of their car. It takes 10 minutes to set up. They play favorites with the rotation. Hardly ever update their music selection.
Their singing actually chases people out of the bar.

So whenever you don't invest enough in your sound system (business) you have to work cheaper to get jobs. Because of the over crowded market of cheap sounding KJs, now every bar owner in the area thinks that $75-$125 per night is what all KJs are worth. They rarely get to hear good karaoke because they are so few and far between. And they think crap is the norm...So I could ask what I'm worth which is $300 a night and sit home 7 nights a week or I can lower my price some and work 5 nights a week. Nobody else works or has worked as steady as me. Do I like getting $175. HELL NO. But considering the mentality of the bar owners there isn't much choice. 15 years ago DJs got $3-400 per night. I do have one job that pays $200 for 3 1/2 hours. That's more like it. What you don't realize is that there are not many around here making $175. They can not even get that much...know why??? THEY SUCK....and everyone knows they are not worth what I get. If I was working in the downtown area I would get more. I'm playing the burbs. I don't like downtown. Ma & Pa bars are OK for me. They are not dives, just nice local bars. That hold around 75-150 people.

Oh and I made over $750,000 on $175 a night. If the area wasn't saturated with idiots I could have doubled that.

FYI---I do not use a feed back eliminator. Never said I did. You lose the bet.

Just an EQ and a compressor on the microphones. ONLY

And I always use a complete PA system with subs...

I'll put my show up against anyone in the area and I guarantee that I'll come out on top. Nobody in the entire area can match my equipment investment. Nobody else buys $600 microphones. Not many can mix as good as I do. Even less can entertain a crowd all night using just karaoke music only.

I have lasted at the top for 15 years, which is to say not many have kept up to me.

Is my arm sore????? You better believe it.

One hand pats my back and the other waves good-bye to my cheap competition as they go down-for-the-count.

NO quality = No work....It's a pretty simple equation...Which is kinda the point I was trying to make. You can nickel-dime your business to death or you can decide to make a quality investment that will pay you back very well, if you do things correctly.

Not bragging....just the facts....Maybe this information will help some KJs decide to upgrade their equipment or new KJs to buy quality stuff from the start.

It's the cheap KJs that suck, that keep the price down for everyone. If every KJ ran with a higher quality system, we could all ask for the money we are worth. But since the ratio of good quality KJs compared to cheap ones is so low, the good ones have to suffer.

Most KJs don't have the commitment level I do. So their final product reflects that in the poor sound and show quality. Because they see this only as a way to make a quick buck. Pretty soon it becomes a real job and to make ends meet they offer themselves up cheap just to keep working. I work steady because I put out a quality show. Not because I'm cheaper than everyone. I'll take your job and get paid more to do it. It has happened many many times. I got paid more money than the KJ I replaced. Once a bar has me they can never go back to a lessor quality KJ. They will lose their business. Seen it happen for idiot bar owners that though they could pay a cheaper KJ to do what I do. LOL Very shortly the crowd dies. Once you kill an established karaoke crowd, it's dead for good. The singers all find another place to go on that night.

I know many crowd killing cheap KJs. The bar owners actually pay them to kill their business. By the time they realize they have made a mistake in hiring a cheap KJ, it's too late. The damage has already been done. I have been hired to revive many dead bars. Or to save them from "Cheap KJ" destruction.
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Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

You can charge what the demographics of the area dictate.

My house, if it was located in California would be worth somewhere between $300,000-$600,000. Where it sits now, it's worth between $125,000-$175,000. Does that mean it's less of a house here? Same square footage. It's the supply and demand.

My area is over loaded with cheap hacks. So to be in the ball game I have to play the game.

Cheap under equiped and under prepared KJs hurt the entire rate structure. I'm a victim as are many others in other parts of the country. Look at some other karaoke forums and check out average prices. Many get between $75-$125, and they think that's good.

If you are in an area that has little competition then consider yourself extremely lucky. Most places are overloaded.
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Superstar
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karaoke & music

Post by Superstar »

I haven't been on here in a while, but looks like this was a heated discussion. I guess my husband & I should feel lucky, we've been in business for 4 years now and we're still the only kj's in our county. I only know of one other KJ to refer clients to when we are booked and he is 45 minutes away. Pays to live in a small community I guess. As far as doing an entire show with karaoke music and singers alone, our crowd would HATE it! They love to hear about 3-4 singers then 2 dance songs. Our singers don't always sing the latest upbeat dance songs, so it's nice to pack the dance floor when we play music. Anyway, we like a variety, that's what works for us in our area.
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Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

Superstar, Not to put gas on the old fire, but...since when was a karaoke night supposed to be about people that want to dance? That's why they have DJs.

Will a DJ stop everything so you can karaoke a song? I think not. I think it's ignorant of any KJ to cater to dancers on an advertized "karaoke" night.

Karaoke started out as people singing. When did it change to people dancing and expecting and demanding dance music.

We as mankind in general, are losing our little finger because we don't use it. But we don't use it because we are losing it. Get it??? Catch 22

The same thing will happen to karaoke if everyone thinks that "karaoke" should contain dance music sets. You will kill karaoke. Eventually you will become a DJ from lack of karaoke jobs/singers. The bar owner can replace you with a DJ that hands out a microphone so you can sing with the regular music. It happens at a bar I do on Saturday. He has a DJ on Friday that does exactly that. Cro-magnon karaoke.

I prefer to remain a 100% pure KJ. I never will play dance music for someone that thinks they should take over the show so they can dance. You are selling out the karaoke singers for what???? Some idiot that wants to tell you how to run your show. It's karaoke night. NOT DANCING night.

People danced tonight at my karaoke. Imagine that!!! Without a dance music set. I did have a girl ask me to play regular music tonight. The first time in a very long time. She stayed most of the night. She didn't die. It didn't kill her. She wanted to take over "my" show with some hip hop crap music. So she could dance. She can go find a DJ to play it. On DJ night. Where people expect to dance. They don't expect the DJ to do karaoke sets.

I live in a small town too. It just happens to be next to a big city filled with a few hundred half-a$$ cheap KJs. That have to play dance music because they do not attract enough talented singers to support a 100% pure karaoke show. Crappy singers equal dance set playing DJ/KJs. They have to do something to keep their jobs. I get and keep all of my "karaoke" jobs the old fashioned way...with "karaoke" music on a "karaoke" night. It's my karaoke business..not somebody that wants to dance at a karaoke business...

Singers pay my bills....non singers always out number them and fill the building and listen to them..and dance to karaoke music if they want to...
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

Well Penny (Superstar) I suppose you realize by now that Bigdog is probably the only KJ in America that plays absolutely no DJ dance music. Those of us that have been in the karaoke business for awhile know that "karaoke only" is very boring and thus attracts a following of very boring people. Of course KJ's like Bigdog can do well with karaoke only as these boring people need a place to go and bore each other for hours without interruption.

The rest of us in the karaoke business prefer to provide a lively and fun show. Most of us advertise as "Karaoke & DJ" so I don't think any of the singers are startled when some DJ dance music is played. Unless a DJ advertises this way he no business calling someone up to sing.

The notion that dance music is killing karaoke is totally ridiculous. In my area every KJ also plays DJ dance music when necessary and I can assure you that karaoke is alive and well showing no signs of demise. I'm willing to bet that most other KJs here are experiencing the same.

I'm happy that Bigdog has found a niche with the boring crowds and I'm sure he will prosper from this for years to come. The rest of us will provide the entertainment for those who enjoy a little excitement in their lives.
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OnTheMicDJs
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Post by OnTheMicDJs »

Oh Wiseguy, this is sure to bring a page long rebuttal from BigDog, saying the same crap over and over again. Oooh, while we're at it, let's bring up censoring our karaoke songbooks again too...BigDog likes debating about that one!
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

OnTheMicDJs wrote:Oh Wiseguy, this is sure to bring a page long rebuttal from BigDog, saying the same crap over and over again. Oooh, while we're at it, let's bring up censoring our karaoke songbooks again too...BigDog likes debating about that one!
Undoubtedly LOL. This was more of a reply to my friends at Superstar Karaoke. I have no plans in further debating the issue.
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Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

I have read many tales of woe on other sites about the demise of karaoke from untalented, small investment, under cutting, so called KJs and how they have driven many good KJs out of business. And caused the going karaoke rate to be reduced to a point that setting up in many cities isn't worth it anymore.

Karaoke did not start as Djs playing songs without vocals. Karaoke became it's own entity. With many companies producing song versions specifically for karaoke enthusiasts. Karaoke has grown beyond anyones wildest expectations. They thought it would be dead 10 years ago. I remember all the music stores selling out of their karaoke related stuff like rats leaving a sinking ship.

When will you as DJ/KJs reach the point where you are playing more dance music than karaoke? It is happening little by little. Soon you will just be DJs that use to do karaoke. I absolutely refuse to sell out the singers so some ignorant idiot can dance. You remind me of a brain surgeon that has to fill out his schedule doing foot massages, because he's not that good at brain surgery.

My karaoke nights are not boring. With 25 singers last night and the rest of the bar packed all night with non singers double and tripling that of the singers, something must be going right.

It was a mix of all ages. Nobody got out of hand. The singers were very much appreciated. I have mastered my craft. I heard the other KJs/DJs on other sites saying they were adjusting and compensating to the needs of their crowds. Balony.... you crowd is and should still be karaoke singers on a karaoke night. Listeners are welcome but they shouldn't be dictating your actions. Singers have made you what you are to this point. So why stab them in the back .....so you can keep working...??? Sounds like corporate greed talking. I'm not a good KJ so I have to play dance music to keep working.... Sorry but that's how I see it. If that makes me sound like a jerk..so be it. But nobody will be able to point a finger at me and say you helped kill karaoke.

The majority of my barely surviving competition plays dance sets. They play for less money than I get. They work less often. Does that say anything?

Will you lose your jobs if you stop playing dance sets? A good KJ wouldn't...

Karaoke in all the bars I play is their biggest money making night. If it was their most boring night that wouldn't happen. And I would be sitting at home watching Dancing with the Stars.

Are there any real KJs left on this site?

How about real dedicated karaoke singers?

Where is your input on the subject? Do you want DJ/KJs to ruin your fun so someone can waste your singing time so they can dance? Let them dance at DJ night. Screw the people that think they should have dance music at karaoke.... That is not karaoke and has nothing to do with karaoke. If the singers don't stick together and demand the karaoke night be just that...you are contributing to the death of karaoke as you know it. Slowing but surely it will die if you don't stand up for yourself.

P.S. I almost forgot...I edit my song book. That is also a big part of my success.....because it keeps some jerk that wants to swear and act like an idiot from taking over my show... I won't sell out to the idiots that want to dance and think it's DJ night or the idiots that think it's free-for-all open mike time at the over 21 kindergarden...
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OnTheMicDJs
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Post by OnTheMicDJs »

I rest my case.
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Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

I did have one jerk try to pull his stuff on Saturday night. The first song he asked for was COWBOY by Kid Rock. I pegged him right away. A$$HOLE..... I don't have the song in my book. He picked a different song.....and during the instrumental break he had to let everyone know that the entertainer from Atlanta was in the house.... His second song he sang Dancing with Myself and near the end of the song he changed the words to "I have my hand down my pants...etc.."

Another jerk that wanted to hi-jack the show to turn it into something he thinks a karaoke should be. A Free-for-all-swearing-festival-on-the-microphones....

He, and jerks like him are not going to be the center of the nights entertainment....

I won't sell out to them....


I rest my case.
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