I'm trying to decide between a laptop and a rack mount PC. Laptop looks to be cheaper to build and more convenient as well (with the exception of having to connect and disconnect everynight.) I read somewhere that I wanted a plextor DVDR/W for the drive to be able to read CDG disks. Is this correct?
Do all drives not read teh CDG format to at least be able to rip the file to the harddrive?
Also, Are yall using external harddrives for your music files? Any good reccomendations?
Thanks!
DVDR/W
Re: DVDR/W
OK first of all, I've yet to see a Laptop that can be built to the same specs as a desktop/rack mount (same thing essentially) for the same price, let alone cheaper. I would recommend the rack mount for a number of reasons. First is sound quality. There are a ton of high quality sound cards available for desktop PC's. With a laptop your choices are much more limited and finding a good high quality one can be difficult and expensive. Second would be the convenience of having it in your rack. Third is the CD/DVD drive. You don't have to go Plextor necessarily but you do need a drive that specifically supports CD+G in order to play or rip a CD+G. Plextor is the most common but there are others, however they are much harder to find for Laptops than desktops unless you go external (yet another thing to carry in every night).Shooter13 wrote:I'm trying to decide between a laptop and a rack mount PC. Laptop looks to be cheaper to build and more convenient as well (with the exception of having to connect and disconnect everynight.) I read somewhere that I wanted a plextor DVDR/W for the drive to be able to read CDG disks. Is this correct?
Do all drives not read teh CDG format to at least be able to rip the file to the harddrive?
Also, Are yall using external harddrives for your music files? Any good reccomendations?
Thanks!
There are two benefits I can see to the laptop though. First, you could use it for more than just your Karaoke business (that may or may not be a good thing though). Second, laptops tend to be more "ruggedized" than the desktop/rackmount technologies. In other words they're better suited for being constantly moved around.
Finally, as far as internal or external drives. If you're using a laptop, get an external drive. Since you generally only get one internal drive on a laptop, this gives you the ability to add a large drive with ease. If you go rackmount, stick with internal. No sense in adding one more thing to carry and the annoyance of another cable to have to hook up every night.
Hope that is helpful.
Thanks for the reply Tony or Darryl!
I wasn't planning to build the laptop but instead go with a decent used Dell off Ebay. Otherwise I get what you are saying regarding price. My day job invlves computers nonstop almost so I understand the limitations you mention. From what I have seen however most people are using a standard 16 bit sound card from their lap top.
The biggest reason i was looking laptop verus rackmount is the ease with which I can take it anywhere and can rip songs and add titles and artist whenever I want. I am sitting on two big boxes of CDG's that need to be ripped and it is looking like a pretty long project for someone who has a day job as well. That was really the only reason I saw to go laptop but maybe I'll just go ahead and go rackmount. Any good sources for rack cases? Tiger direct has them but they are expensive.
I wasn't planning to build the laptop but instead go with a decent used Dell off Ebay. Otherwise I get what you are saying regarding price. My day job invlves computers nonstop almost so I understand the limitations you mention. From what I have seen however most people are using a standard 16 bit sound card from their lap top.
The biggest reason i was looking laptop verus rackmount is the ease with which I can take it anywhere and can rip songs and add titles and artist whenever I want. I am sitting on two big boxes of CDG's that need to be ripped and it is looking like a pretty long project for someone who has a day job as well. That was really the only reason I saw to go laptop but maybe I'll just go ahead and go rackmount. Any good sources for rack cases? Tiger direct has them but they are expensive.
I got mine off ebay.Shooter13 wrote:Thanks for the reply Tony or Darryl!
I wasn't planning to build the laptop but instead go with a decent used Dell off Ebay. Otherwise I get what you are saying regarding price. My day job invlves computers nonstop almost so I understand the limitations you mention. From what I have seen however most people are using a standard 16 bit sound card from their lap top.
The biggest reason i was looking laptop verus rackmount is the ease with which I can take it anywhere and can rip songs and add titles and artist whenever I want. I am sitting on two big boxes of CDG's that need to be ripped and it is looking like a pretty long project for someone who has a day job as well. That was really the only reason I saw to go laptop but maybe I'll just go ahead and go rackmount. Any good sources for rack cases? Tiger direct has them but they are expensive.
Ahh alright, I saw the word "Build" in your first post and jumped right to that conclusion. Yes if you're going to buy a complete system then you probably would get a laptop cheaper as most rack mounts are going to be designed to be servers (read big time capacity, redundancy, etc).Shooter13 wrote:Thanks for the reply Tony or Darryl!
I wasn't planning to build the laptop but instead go with a decent used Dell off Ebay. Otherwise I get what you are saying regarding price. My day job invlves computers nonstop almost so I understand the limitations you mention. From what I have seen however most people are using a standard 16 bit sound card from their lap top.
The biggest reason i was looking laptop verus rackmount is the ease with which I can take it anywhere and can rip songs and add titles and artist whenever I want. I am sitting on two big boxes of CDG's that need to be ripped and it is looking like a pretty long project for someone who has a day job as well. That was really the only reason I saw to go laptop but maybe I'll just go ahead and go rackmount. Any good sources for rack cases? Tiger direct has them but they are expensive.
As far as the laptop I think you'd probably be fine and the advantages you point out are indisputable. See I hang out with a couple of professional sound engineers so getting the best quality sound is always a high priority for me. I have seen a number of shows run with base model 16-bit cards and they do fine.
If you do decide to go rack mount and are looking for a case, there are a couple I can suggest. They do all typically run more expensive than a comparable desktop case (yeah it's a bit of a racket). Keep an eye on Pricewatch and Ebay. I generally go with products at www.servercase.com. I shy away from the chenbro's as they usually are pretty flimsy. I really like the CK4062 as it is well built and has a lot of ventilation (VERY important when rackmounting). Hope that helps.
-Tony
Well something else to think of with going the laptop route. My business partner and I were just playing around with a laptop thinking about using it for a PC based system. Well we hooked it up to our rig, set all the levels on the mix and found a horrible hum coming from the laptop. Well turns out the sound card in the laptop is mounted right next to the Hard Drive. The hum we were getting was the sound card picking up interference from the hard drive's motor. Absolutely nothing we can do to get rid of it, so we're looking at other PC's we could use instead.
Yes. I wondered about that issue as well. i ended up buying a used server off Ebay. I am installing a new 24 bit sound card in it as well as a few other things. I bought a refurbished Dell 15" LCD from tigerdirect for $99. I also bought a wireless keyboard and mouse combo that I can leave connected to the USB port full time. The LCD will fit in the bottom of my rack so I can pull it and the keyboard/mouse our ans set them on the table next to the rack. I'll let you know once I get it all set up. I ended up purchasing a mackie 1202 VLZ mixer( I know it is overkill but I am planning on using this same rig for an acoustic group I play guitar with.) I bought a Behringer 2024DSP effects processor and a QSC 1450 amp. All that is running through JBL 115JRX speakers. I think it should sound pretty good. I am trying a set of hisonic wireless mikes i got off Ebay. I don't know what I will think of them but they were not too expensive to at least give them a try. So far I have the foundation series and all 5 bricks as well as the Sweet Georgia Brown set of CDG's. (It is gonna take a while to rip them all.) I have my CD collection for fill music. What other CDG's do you guys think i should go ahead and get? Anyway, just thoguth I would give everyone an update on my system I am building. i know reading a few other peoples experiences helped me.
Overkill? No Way, the Mackies are a great mixer. Of course you're talking to someone who was choosing between the Mackie CFX 12 and a Yamaha MG16/6FX. The JBL's you've got should serve you well too, I'm a huge JBL fan! Personally, I love to see KJ's put a little extra money into getting top notch sound.
I like the setup you've got for your computer, that should work out really well. We've started looking at 1U blade servers with a similar setup in mind. Sounds like you're well on your way, good luck to you!!
I like the setup you've got for your computer, that should work out really well. We've started looking at 1U blade servers with a similar setup in mind. Sounds like you're well on your way, good luck to you!!
Well a bit of a snag today. The case fpr the computer was listed as being 17.5" deep. It turns out that it is actually about 20" deep. No real problem except my rack is only 19" deep. GRRR. I'll have to see what I am going to do about it. The one I got is a 4U case. The thing is huge. If I end up buying another one, I may chose to go with a 2U. The other option I am considering is leaving the rear door off my rack or modifying the front door to extend and leave room for rthe case to stick out. not sure. Those are nice mixers. I looked at the cfx12 myself but in the end I went with the cheaper 1202 and seperate effects processor. I have no idea how the system will sound for karaoke but I can tell you, it sounds great with my stereo and even better with my acoustic using the effects. The Mics came in today. So far I just have them sitting here. I connected them and tested them but haven't really done any singing with them yet (wife was already asleep).
Anyone have any suggestions on other cdgs to round out what I have so far? I figured I would get some of the spotlight series. I really like the Sound choice brand disks so far. They sound much better than the georgia brown line.
Anyone have any suggestions on other cdgs to round out what I have so far? I figured I would get some of the spotlight series. I really like the Sound choice brand disks so far. They sound much better than the georgia brown line.
I really like Sound Choice and Chartbusters, those two are at the top of my list. I'd put Music Maestro as one step down along with Sweet Georgia Brown, still good but not the best. Below that I'd rank All Star Karaoke and then at the bottom of the list I'd put DKK along with all the consumer brands (Party Time, Karaoke Bay, etc).
Now that you've got what sounds like a good base of songs, I'd start looking at some of the monthly series disks that Chartbusters puts out. Good way to add the newer songs to your collection. Chartbusters also has a few "Essentials" series collections that you could look at if you need to build up some more.
Now that you've got what sounds like a good base of songs, I'd start looking at some of the monthly series disks that Chartbusters puts out. Good way to add the newer songs to your collection. Chartbusters also has a few "Essentials" series collections that you could look at if you need to build up some more.
Are you going to have a backup computer ready to go, in case the main one craps out? If your computer craps in the beginning of the night, you go home with an empty pocket. Then what about your next scheduled show? Will you have the computer fixed in time?
The most undependable thing in the world is bar electricity. Too many compressors and things turning off and on all night long. And usually not enough empty circuits. You may not notice it when you play cds with players, but your computer will notice it right away.
One fried computer equals no money for how long? Having a backup computer could be priceless. Costs more, but do you want to look & do business like a professional or not?
Nothing will make you look like an undependable jerk quicker than that. I seriously doubt that anyone will have the parts to fix a laptop in one day.
I use two players and I will have two computers when I switch, one ready to go, just in case. With back up hard drives. And extra sound and video cards if I decide to go rack mount. Technically you would need to have a backup everything. Keyboard & mouse, monitor, power supply. And a college education to trouble shoot the computer in a matter of minutes. How long does it take to run the recovery discs? Too long.
The most undependable thing in the world is bar electricity. Too many compressors and things turning off and on all night long. And usually not enough empty circuits. You may not notice it when you play cds with players, but your computer will notice it right away.
One fried computer equals no money for how long? Having a backup computer could be priceless. Costs more, but do you want to look & do business like a professional or not?
Nothing will make you look like an undependable jerk quicker than that. I seriously doubt that anyone will have the parts to fix a laptop in one day.
I use two players and I will have two computers when I switch, one ready to go, just in case. With back up hard drives. And extra sound and video cards if I decide to go rack mount. Technically you would need to have a backup everything. Keyboard & mouse, monitor, power supply. And a college education to trouble shoot the computer in a matter of minutes. How long does it take to run the recovery discs? Too long.
The point about power is a very valid one. We play in some venus that are setup for bands and therefore have full power distros. However, in other places, they've got just some 110/15A plug on the wall. If you're running without a power conditioner in your rack, you're just plain foolish.
As far as the backup computer you have a couple options. What we've done is we still bring all our discs. We use our CDG player for our house music. If the PC were to fail, we can switch to discs using the CDG player and would only lose the "house" music to fill the gaps. Backups of the backups cannot be stressed enough. Ideally I'd love to eliminate every single point of failure in our system, however that could get out of control. But eliminating as many as you can is a good plan.
As far as the backup computer you have a couple options. What we've done is we still bring all our discs. We use our CDG player for our house music. If the PC were to fail, we can switch to discs using the CDG player and would only lose the "house" music to fill the gaps. Backups of the backups cannot be stressed enough. Ideally I'd love to eliminate every single point of failure in our system, however that could get out of control. But eliminating as many as you can is a good plan.
I plan to get a backup laptop. I can get them for 400 anyway. Maybe less if I look hard enough and a back up doesn't have to be as good as the original. I already have my music on 2 seperate external drives so that is backed up. I am running a power conditioner in my rack and my laptop can honestly play on its batts for about 6 hours though I had planned to plug it in to the conditioner.
Me personally wouldn't have any trouble swapping parts on the laptop. My day job is automation so computers don't scare me a bit.
I guess I need to consider your point some. I feel more confidant in my laptop than I do in my power amp or other electronics crashing. I suppose I should buy a back up amp, mixer and wireless mic set(though that is backed up with wired) but that seems a bit like overkill.
My feeling was if something crashes and ends one show, that sucks, but I can't eliminate every possibility. Being ready to run the next am is doable and for the most part I am there. Even without the back up laptop I still have my big huge server case machine that has everything on it to run a show. Maybe I will start keeping that in the back of the truck at shows incase the laptop craps out on me.
Me personally wouldn't have any trouble swapping parts on the laptop. My day job is automation so computers don't scare me a bit.
I guess I need to consider your point some. I feel more confidant in my laptop than I do in my power amp or other electronics crashing. I suppose I should buy a back up amp, mixer and wireless mic set(though that is backed up with wired) but that seems a bit like overkill.
My feeling was if something crashes and ends one show, that sucks, but I can't eliminate every possibility. Being ready to run the next am is doable and for the most part I am there. Even without the back up laptop I still have my big huge server case machine that has everything on it to run a show. Maybe I will start keeping that in the back of the truck at shows incase the laptop craps out on me.
I have debated the rack mount vs laptop for a long time. The rack mount I feel is a much better option for the computer hardware durability, however there are many things to consider. The weight of a rackmount system with all of the case and fans, bigger parts in general, etc., has helped me make up my mind. I just bought 2 new identical laptops. No different hook ups, giving me total familiarity with each unit. 6 lbs or so vs. one rack mount case 20lbs if you can get a small aluminum one. Plus all of the guts.
Then you add keyboard, mouse, screen (monitor).......
Taking an extra laptop is much lighter. With a rack mount you need a portable viewing monitor screen. If the main screen craps out you don't have an extra one. With the back up laptop you do. With the back up laptop, you have an extra sound card, video card, processor, OS.
A change over from one laptop to another will take only a few minutes. Taking a case apart to swap anything will take an hour. Swapping an external backup hard drive minutes. Internal rack mount hard drive 1 hour.
My total conversion price to do it as professionally as I can will be as follows:
2 laptops $2500 ....These computers have 2 gig processors to run the laser songs without glitching, while queuing other songs in the hoster program. They also have high quality video and sound cards.
4 external hard drives $800 with fan cooled cases. (2-400 gig hard drives to hold 2000 Pioneer Laser songs) (2 Smaller ones for the CDGs)
Rack mount box to hold and protect all of the laptop, drives and RF stuff and adapters, etc. Approx $300
Misc Equipment, programs and computer geek to to convert Lasers and cdgs to hard drive....Priceless
$2,000-$3,000.
Totaling around $6000-$6500
Not counting several hunderd hours of data transfer from discs to drives.
Peace of mind from not carrying and worrying about 1200 scratched discs and unprofessional looking TV/song glitches...Priceless.
Customers are starting to notice and complain a little more about song glitches, dead air, restarts. I have heard this from other KJs as well.
This may seem like a lot of money, but I do things right or I don't do it at all. It's just part of my professional commitment to my business.
Then you add keyboard, mouse, screen (monitor).......
Taking an extra laptop is much lighter. With a rack mount you need a portable viewing monitor screen. If the main screen craps out you don't have an extra one. With the back up laptop you do. With the back up laptop, you have an extra sound card, video card, processor, OS.
A change over from one laptop to another will take only a few minutes. Taking a case apart to swap anything will take an hour. Swapping an external backup hard drive minutes. Internal rack mount hard drive 1 hour.
My total conversion price to do it as professionally as I can will be as follows:
2 laptops $2500 ....These computers have 2 gig processors to run the laser songs without glitching, while queuing other songs in the hoster program. They also have high quality video and sound cards.
4 external hard drives $800 with fan cooled cases. (2-400 gig hard drives to hold 2000 Pioneer Laser songs) (2 Smaller ones for the CDGs)
Rack mount box to hold and protect all of the laptop, drives and RF stuff and adapters, etc. Approx $300
Misc Equipment, programs and computer geek to to convert Lasers and cdgs to hard drive....Priceless
$2,000-$3,000.Totaling around $6000-$6500
Not counting several hunderd hours of data transfer from discs to drives.
Peace of mind from not carrying and worrying about 1200 scratched discs and unprofessional looking TV/song glitches...Priceless.
Customers are starting to notice and complain a little more about song glitches, dead air, restarts. I have heard this from other KJs as well.
This may seem like a lot of money, but I do things right or I don't do it at all. It's just part of my professional commitment to my business.
