Do you remove songs from your songbooks?
I really didn't start this thread to provoke comments toward wackyquack. I simply wanted to give him credit for bringing up the subject. I know several KJ's in my area that remove songs from their books. One even has two separate sets of songbooks. One set contains all the songs he has and the other has songs removed that contain explicit lyrics.
And for the record... Eminem is the only rapper I actually like listening to.
And for the record... Eminem is the only rapper I actually like listening to.
-
HankHimself
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:44 pm
- Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Here's my stance listed as points of discussion, numbered for easy reference.
(I'm new and hope I don't come off as ajerk, just stating how I see it.)
1. I definitely agree that "most" places should not omit songs from their books. I can certainly see how some shows should be all about the customers.
2. I work at a popular night club in my town and host the show there. The success of our room can easily corelate with songs being sung and how the people sing them. Here's examples:
a.) If someone who is simply tone deaf and is a statue on the stage comes up and drives people out of my room ... they are NOT singing anymore.
b.) If someone who is tone deaf picks a crappy song comes up and does it with energy and gets the people in the room interested/involved ... they WILL sing again and can sing anything they want.
3. I have a 1/5 theory that I like to use. For example ... if a song is still within its initial year of popularity then it plays. If it's older than one year but not yet five years old (I think five years is enough for it to be reminiscent) then it gets stowed away.
Here's my whole stance ... if your bar/room relies on a successful show you should be able to do whatever it takes to make your show fun and entertaining. If that means limiting the "sad bastard music" then so be it. If your bar is gonna have the same amount of customers regardless ... then please let your customers have the choice to sing anything they want.
So, can everyone kind of agree with that??
(I'm new and hope I don't come off as ajerk, just stating how I see it.)
1. I definitely agree that "most" places should not omit songs from their books. I can certainly see how some shows should be all about the customers.
2. I work at a popular night club in my town and host the show there. The success of our room can easily corelate with songs being sung and how the people sing them. Here's examples:
a.) If someone who is simply tone deaf and is a statue on the stage comes up and drives people out of my room ... they are NOT singing anymore.
b.) If someone who is tone deaf picks a crappy song comes up and does it with energy and gets the people in the room interested/involved ... they WILL sing again and can sing anything they want.
3. I have a 1/5 theory that I like to use. For example ... if a song is still within its initial year of popularity then it plays. If it's older than one year but not yet five years old (I think five years is enough for it to be reminiscent) then it gets stowed away.
Here's my whole stance ... if your bar/room relies on a successful show you should be able to do whatever it takes to make your show fun and entertaining. If that means limiting the "sad bastard music" then so be it. If your bar is gonna have the same amount of customers regardless ... then please let your customers have the choice to sing anything they want.
So, can everyone kind of agree with that??
HankHimself,
From your comments I can only come to the conclusion that you are the worst KJ I have ever heard of. You sound as if you are performing a karaoke show in your living room. In a public venue everyone that comes in is considered a paying customer and should have the right to sing any song they like and in a fair rotation system. Anything less is pure discrimination. You put me in mind of one of those KJ's that think they are "Mr. Entertainer" and hog the mic doing a dozen songs a night while taking away singing time from paying customers. You obviously have no idea of what karaoke is really about.
From your comments I can only come to the conclusion that you are the worst KJ I have ever heard of. You sound as if you are performing a karaoke show in your living room. In a public venue everyone that comes in is considered a paying customer and should have the right to sing any song they like and in a fair rotation system. Anything less is pure discrimination. You put me in mind of one of those KJ's that think they are "Mr. Entertainer" and hog the mic doing a dozen songs a night while taking away singing time from paying customers. You obviously have no idea of what karaoke is really about.
I echo wiseguy's comments here. I have a friend that comes to my show when he is in town and he talks his way through his songs but he still gets up there. I would never cut a singer from singing just because he can't sing.wiseguy wrote:HankHimself,
From your comments I can only come to the conclusion that you are the worst KJ I have ever heard of. You sound as if you are performing a karaoke show in your living room. In a public venue everyone that comes in is considered a paying customer and should have the right to sing any song they like and in a fair rotation system. Anything less is pure discrimination. You put me in mind of one of those KJ's that think they are "Mr. Entertainer" and hog the mic doing a dozen songs a night while taking away singing time from paying customers. You obviously have no idea of what karaoke is really about.
That is what karaoke is all about- the average joe or below average joe getting to live a dream even if he can't sing. It's not for the professional singer, although some do come through and actually have a hard time doing karaoke as they are use to performing with a live band.
-
HankHimself
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Oct 10, 2006 4:44 pm
- Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Well, I definitely wanted some feedback but now I feel misunderstood. I'll approach this a touch more delicately ...wiseguy wrote:HankHimself,
From your comments I can only come to the conclusion that you are the worst KJ I have ever heard of. You sound as if you are performing a karaoke show in your living room. In a public venue everyone that comes in is considered a paying customer and should have the right to sing any song they like and in a fair rotation system. Anything less is pure discrimination. You put me in mind of one of those KJ's that think they are "Mr. Entertainer" and hog the mic doing a dozen songs a night while taking away singing time from paying customers. You obviously have no idea of what karaoke is really about.
"In a public venue everyone that comes in is considered a paying customer and should have the right to sing any song they like and in a fair rotation system"
I don't disagree with this at all. My rotation is always fair and I have been commended on it several times over. (I'm not here as a braggard, just putting fact up for my defense.)
"one of those KJ's that think they are "Mr. Entertainer" and hog the mic doing a dozen songs a night"
If there are songs in my rotation I barely ever sing. If I do grab the mic to sing it's usually right after some slower songs just to pick things back up again.
"You obviously have no idea of what karaoke is really about."
I do know what it's about. It's for every person out there to hop up on a stage and feel really good about themselves even if for just moments at a time. I used to sing in a band before my deployment to Iraq and I really miss that experience of being on a stage. There are many who don't get to have that experience and karaoke is a way for them to have a taste of it (minus the bickering and set list making behind the scenes.)
Once more, in my defense, I feel like I have to remind you guys that I work in a very busy night club. If the owner of the club comes in and sees no customers he's gonna want to know why. If anyone doesn't understand what it's about it's the bar staff. I've had my ass completely chewed for letting people "kill the show" as they put it to me. I am in the most awkward position because I have to please my customers and the establishment I work for at the same time. Omiting songs and purposely skipping people are things I don't do very often, for I would hate to have that happen to any of my friends. On the flip side, they pay me extremely well and I have to do as they wish as well.
I hope you guys can kind of understand where I'm coming from. When I go out for karaoke with friends on an off night, I see all kinds of folks out who are doing just what the spirit of karaoke is all about. I am jealous of that KJ. They don't require him to be energetic and connect with the crowd. He just has to play the songs people put in. I have to organize contests, make people laugh, make people excited to be there ... the list goes on. I envy the KJ that has a chair to sit in.
I guess the main moral of all this is that it's hard to judge a man before walking a mile in their shoes. I'd love a mile in your shoes ...
You guys have a great message board here and I aim to learn more so I can give my customers a better time.
It's easy to be misunderstood when you make such matter of fact statements without mentioning that it's not your choice. I personally would not work for someone like that no matter how well they paid. The main reason I started my karaoke business, some 15+ years ago, is because of KJ's that ran their shows the way you described. I watched time after time the KJ skipping over people just because they could not sing well, the songs they chose, or to allow their friends to sing more. Or worst of all, to hog the mic themselves because they believed they were such a great entertainer.Well, I definitely wanted some feedback but now I feel misunderstood.
From day one I invoked a strict set of "rules of rotation" and have never varied from them. I have never skipped or refused a singer for any other reason than them being obnoxious or disruptive. There have been several nights where I shut down my show, packed up and left, because the the management tried to make me skip someone to give more singing time to their friends or because they didn't like the songs a person was singing. It's hard enough for some people to muster the courage to stand in front of a crowd and sing without having to worry about the humiliation of the KJ refusing them.
It now sounds to me that you would like to run a fair show if given the opportunity. So why don't you invest in your own karaoke system and start stealing the crowd away from places like you are working at now. It worked for me.
removing songs from songbook
I admit, the last time I redid my songbooks, I omitted 3 songs from it, one of which is vulgar and the last 2 times someone sang it, I got a lot of slack from the bar owners and from the crowd, and the other two that are close to 9 min. songs, and every time someone sings them I loose the crowds interest, and the dancers on the floor. I DO have fair song rotation and allow the singers to sing anything they like provided it's in my songbook.
hi everyone this is my first post here. as a 4 year host at one bar, i generally leave all the songs in my books, and let the owner OR the crowd dictate what people sing and what people don't. there's a couple songs i deliberately leave out because they are TOTAL show-killers, and only one i can remember 'the rose' by bette midler. i guess you can see why! ha. well, i hope to be posting a lot here, so see you all around!
Hi All,
So I read This Entire thread so Here is my thoughts.
I TOTALLY!!! agree with you Wiseguy on your point about letting everyone sing no matter who they are or what they sound like, or if i dislike them or for whatever reason a "bad host" can come up with to justify why they don't let them sing.
REMEMBER.. Karaoke translates to "Tone-deaf Singer" literally, from japanese.
For example, I have a girl who went deaf at the age of 10, she comes in and she sings, yes off key, off beat, you can hardly make out the words she is singing, but she remembers these songs from her childhood.
NOW the next point might sound bad, please don't write hate mail.
I run a "Karaoke Show", I sing the first song of every round, ussually something my clients pick for me as a request. I dance with all of my customers, either on the dance floor or on stage with them, depending my comfort level with the singer. I don't sit down at all at a 5 hour show. I never have my back to the audience and i don't hide behind a table.
This is my business, INTERGRITY, is the key to my success. Therefore, the first and foremost topic i approach with a bar owner/operator is, that all decisions having to do with the running of my show is my business, PERIOD!! I don't tell them how to run their bar, WHY? because I know nothing about the bar business. Just as bar owners don't know everything about Karaoke (or they would be running it themselves), so leave it to me.
As wiseguy stated, as i have also done myself, I have packed up and left, never to return without this issue being resolved. Although I may be contracted to them, I have more than one establishment i work for in my area, I need ALL of the singers to know it works the same way everywhere I play and not 1 set of rules change just because of the bar I play at.
This has made everything very simple for me...
Everyone has a turn every round.
They can bring whoever they choose to bring up with them.
They can sing as little or as much of the song as they want.
If they want help, (if i know the song lol), i will try and help them.
If i don't know it, I usually have a pretty good idea of who does know it to help them.
As long as they have spent 1 dollar in the bar they are entitled to sing.
NOW that said, i do have a couple reasons why i cut singers off.
1) abuse of equipment
2) screaming in the microphone
3) Swearing in the microphone needlessly
4) verbally abusive towards me
5) if they have been cut off from the bar
all of these are posted beside the video feed in nice BIG letters so everyone knows. I rarely have a problem, maybe once every 2 months. I revoked all singing priveledges for the night. If it happens 3 seperate nights, then i don't let them sing for a year. (i'm in a community where i grew up all my life so i pretty much know everyone on a first name basis, a little easier for me to do than most.)
OKAY this is where i get strange, i think. What do you all think of "Mic Time", before or after a song is played for dedications or stories or jokes?
Cause umm.. I control my mics from my amps so I don't turn them on until the words to the song appear on the screen and I shut them off as soon as the last word disappears.
Why? i know your asking. i have people who like to dedicate songs to their "second-cousins-mothers-aunt-Rachel from Mars who died 3 weeks ago in a freak shower accident, who incedentily had her cat ran over on the same day. She left 7 kids and 9 brothers and sisters and....." Then song starts and they are singing "ACDC you shook me all night long" or something just as interesting. WOW omg!!! .. either you feel like you bathed in a tub full of country songs or your thinking could this drunk be any more pathetic.
BOY this post is long sorry lol.
As far as 2 sets of books, yes I have 'em. All dirty or swearing songs removed from 1 set because sometimes i do functions where there are children present, and instead of trying to explain to some 17 year old that they can't sing "a lap dance is so much better when the stripper is crying", i'd rather just not have the conversation at all.
I also remove all duplicates from the books I put out on the tables but keep them in my master copy, in case the one i normally use gets damaged.
REMOVING SONGS! I am GUILTY!!
The Rose (Wow oh so depressing... and the version i have is absolutely herendous)
Wonderful Tonight (personal choice, as it disturbs one of my customers to tears when it plays)
And an enormous amount of head banging, heavy rock, Metal, broadway, hip-hop, Rap, and even Dance CD's that (get this), after owning for 3 years i have never used even 1 time so i removed those disks and replaced them with something else. I was running out of room for disks.
But besides that, i mean, i am totally for any raunchy music, rap, hip hop, R&B, dance, oldie, standard, heavy metal, head banging, country music you want to throw up on a slip of paper.
Don't get me wrong I Cringe, BORN AND RAISED COUNTRY, (Love country BUT again), when i hear any Shania, Alan Jackson, Keith Urban, or Garth Brooks Song i want to plug my ears. If i had it my way i would remove them all, but it's NOT for me to dictate to my customers what they can and can't sing just cause i hate those Artists. SO I grind my teeth, BITE my tongue, and dance along as if it were my favorite song and i couldn't live another day without hearing it one more time.
I have another question of interest...
Back when karaoke began i remember the singers, they came out to sing the best they could, to showcase their talent and to be in the lime light doing a good job.
I find now the new generation of Karaoke-ers to be bubbly, out to have a good time, a care free partying bunch.
IN NO WAY do i think this is a bad thing, although i have the older Karaoke-ers that do say it is a bad thing.
I was wondering if everyone else has found this trend, or is it just me?
So it's just a peice of my mind, actually i have written such a long post, it could be all of my mind.
Sweet Dreams All & Nitey-Nite,
Marlena
So I read This Entire thread so Here is my thoughts.
I TOTALLY!!! agree with you Wiseguy on your point about letting everyone sing no matter who they are or what they sound like, or if i dislike them or for whatever reason a "bad host" can come up with to justify why they don't let them sing.
REMEMBER.. Karaoke translates to "Tone-deaf Singer" literally, from japanese.
For example, I have a girl who went deaf at the age of 10, she comes in and she sings, yes off key, off beat, you can hardly make out the words she is singing, but she remembers these songs from her childhood.
NOW the next point might sound bad, please don't write hate mail.
I run a "Karaoke Show", I sing the first song of every round, ussually something my clients pick for me as a request. I dance with all of my customers, either on the dance floor or on stage with them, depending my comfort level with the singer. I don't sit down at all at a 5 hour show. I never have my back to the audience and i don't hide behind a table.
This is my business, INTERGRITY, is the key to my success. Therefore, the first and foremost topic i approach with a bar owner/operator is, that all decisions having to do with the running of my show is my business, PERIOD!! I don't tell them how to run their bar, WHY? because I know nothing about the bar business. Just as bar owners don't know everything about Karaoke (or they would be running it themselves), so leave it to me.
As wiseguy stated, as i have also done myself, I have packed up and left, never to return without this issue being resolved. Although I may be contracted to them, I have more than one establishment i work for in my area, I need ALL of the singers to know it works the same way everywhere I play and not 1 set of rules change just because of the bar I play at.
This has made everything very simple for me...
Everyone has a turn every round.
They can bring whoever they choose to bring up with them.
They can sing as little or as much of the song as they want.
If they want help, (if i know the song lol), i will try and help them.
If i don't know it, I usually have a pretty good idea of who does know it to help them.
As long as they have spent 1 dollar in the bar they are entitled to sing.
NOW that said, i do have a couple reasons why i cut singers off.
1) abuse of equipment
2) screaming in the microphone
3) Swearing in the microphone needlessly
4) verbally abusive towards me
5) if they have been cut off from the bar
all of these are posted beside the video feed in nice BIG letters so everyone knows. I rarely have a problem, maybe once every 2 months. I revoked all singing priveledges for the night. If it happens 3 seperate nights, then i don't let them sing for a year. (i'm in a community where i grew up all my life so i pretty much know everyone on a first name basis, a little easier for me to do than most.)
OKAY this is where i get strange, i think. What do you all think of "Mic Time", before or after a song is played for dedications or stories or jokes?
Cause umm.. I control my mics from my amps so I don't turn them on until the words to the song appear on the screen and I shut them off as soon as the last word disappears.
Why? i know your asking. i have people who like to dedicate songs to their "second-cousins-mothers-aunt-Rachel from Mars who died 3 weeks ago in a freak shower accident, who incedentily had her cat ran over on the same day. She left 7 kids and 9 brothers and sisters and....." Then song starts and they are singing "ACDC you shook me all night long" or something just as interesting. WOW omg!!! .. either you feel like you bathed in a tub full of country songs or your thinking could this drunk be any more pathetic.
BOY this post is long sorry lol.
As far as 2 sets of books, yes I have 'em. All dirty or swearing songs removed from 1 set because sometimes i do functions where there are children present, and instead of trying to explain to some 17 year old that they can't sing "a lap dance is so much better when the stripper is crying", i'd rather just not have the conversation at all.
I also remove all duplicates from the books I put out on the tables but keep them in my master copy, in case the one i normally use gets damaged.
REMOVING SONGS! I am GUILTY!!
The Rose (Wow oh so depressing... and the version i have is absolutely herendous)
Wonderful Tonight (personal choice, as it disturbs one of my customers to tears when it plays)
And an enormous amount of head banging, heavy rock, Metal, broadway, hip-hop, Rap, and even Dance CD's that (get this), after owning for 3 years i have never used even 1 time so i removed those disks and replaced them with something else. I was running out of room for disks.
But besides that, i mean, i am totally for any raunchy music, rap, hip hop, R&B, dance, oldie, standard, heavy metal, head banging, country music you want to throw up on a slip of paper.
Don't get me wrong I Cringe, BORN AND RAISED COUNTRY, (Love country BUT again), when i hear any Shania, Alan Jackson, Keith Urban, or Garth Brooks Song i want to plug my ears. If i had it my way i would remove them all, but it's NOT for me to dictate to my customers what they can and can't sing just cause i hate those Artists. SO I grind my teeth, BITE my tongue, and dance along as if it were my favorite song and i couldn't live another day without hearing it one more time.
I have another question of interest...
Back when karaoke began i remember the singers, they came out to sing the best they could, to showcase their talent and to be in the lime light doing a good job.
I find now the new generation of Karaoke-ers to be bubbly, out to have a good time, a care free partying bunch.
IN NO WAY do i think this is a bad thing, although i have the older Karaoke-ers that do say it is a bad thing.
I was wondering if everyone else has found this trend, or is it just me?
So it's just a peice of my mind, actually i have written such a long post, it could be all of my mind.
Sweet Dreams All & Nitey-Nite,
Marlena
Great post Marlena! Had me laughing out loud a couple of times. For the most part, we share the same view of what karaoke should be and the way a show should be run.
As for "Mic Time", I do not allow my singers to talk over the mic, before or after the song, without my prior permission. And then it will be for no more than 10 seconds.
I too have many songs that have never been requested. I just know that the day I decide to get rid of them someone will request one. So I just let them lie dormant in the song books.
I really can't say that I've noticed much of change in the karaoke crowds over the past 15 years that I've been in the business. Of course the popularity of karaoke and the number of singers has increased significantly but the general attitude of the crowd is still reflected by the age group of a given establishment. Older crowd = showcase their talent and younger crowd = out to have a good time.
Ok, I'm signing off before my post becomes larger than your's
Thank you for your enlightening comments.
As for "Mic Time", I do not allow my singers to talk over the mic, before or after the song, without my prior permission. And then it will be for no more than 10 seconds.
I too have many songs that have never been requested. I just know that the day I decide to get rid of them someone will request one. So I just let them lie dormant in the song books.
I really can't say that I've noticed much of change in the karaoke crowds over the past 15 years that I've been in the business. Of course the popularity of karaoke and the number of singers has increased significantly but the general attitude of the crowd is still reflected by the age group of a given establishment. Older crowd = showcase their talent and younger crowd = out to have a good time.
Ok, I'm signing off before my post becomes larger than your's
Thank you for your enlightening comments.
I edit my song book. I do it as a form of crowd control. I have seen shows that get way out of hand. I do not want or let my crowd to get that way. So all of the major swearing, hip hop/rap, cop killing, mothering, sexual, angry rock songs are gone. Think of the worst songs out there, that you have in your book. Would you sing them to your mother and grandmother? Do you want your kids to sing them? If you let the swearing start at your show, then that's what singers think is going to be the norm for your show. I want my singers to think that the show norm is exactly that, normal. I don't want people to get offended. Then they leave and guess who they talk about. The bad KJ at So & Sos. I attract singers that have a little more talent and are a little more serious about karaoke. So I do not want or get the sceaming drunk crowd. They go to the other places. That's fine with me. I have a quality reputation and I won't let some drunk punk ruin it for me, because he wants to scream swear words on a microphone, in public. Grow up. Your reputation is what gets you the jobs.
