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New KJ, I have some questions

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The Lone Ranger
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) Keep the good thoughts wiseguy, the first debate in about 9 days will tell us more. I hope you are right that the voters won't be fooled again. The thing that bothers me most is how Trump is able to rewrite his own history almost on a daily basis. Statements that would have cooked other candidates long before now, still seem to roll off him, go figure?


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wiseguy
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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The trouble with theses national polls is that they are random samplings. I'm unaware of any credible national polls that collect data from only woman and minority voters. These are the voters who are going to sink con man Don. If they do any real time fact checking in the debates con man Don is going to come off looking very stupid.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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wiseguy wrote:The trouble with theses national polls is that they are random samplings. I'm unaware of any credible national polls that collect data from only woman and minority voters. These are the voters who are going to sink con man Don. If they do any real time fact checking in the debates con man Don is going to come off looking very stupid.

8) Going into the debates wiseguy, The Donald is going to use his favorite trick, falling back on the polls when he gets into a tight spot. If Hillary makes a point, he will say this is only an act of desperation since I'm ahead in the polls. That is the same trick he used against all of his other Republican challengers during their debates, and got away with it. While it is true that Trump is lagging behind with women with college degrees, he is making it up with blue collar men and women, according to the samples taken. As long a Hillary was ahead in the polls Trump couldn't play the desperation card, now he is free to do so. What both parties are having trouble with is the large group of disaffected voters that not only dislike both candidates, but also have trouble with both parties. In both parties the elite establishment is being challenged by the non elite base, the ruling class is at odds with the people they rule. How this will all play out is anybody's guess. Basically it is the America first crowd v.s. the internationalists.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) With the recent bombing it would seem both candidates are trying to appear they would be tougher on terrorism. The reality is there is very little anyone can do as far as lone wolf terrorists are concerned. We would have to create a super police state and most of the personal freedoms we now enjoy would fall by the wayside. If this were to occur then the terrorists would have won, and changed us instead of us changing them.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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The Lone Ranger wrote:8) With the recent bombing it would seem both candidates are trying to appear they would be tougher on terrorism. The reality is there is very little anyone can do as far as lone wolf terrorists are concerned. We would have to create a super police state and most of the personal freedoms we now enjoy would fall by the wayside. If this were to occur then the terrorists would have won, and changed us instead of us changing them.
They have no choice but to come out strong against terrorists. These attacks scare the hell out people and they want something done about them now. Con man Don appeals to the people who would support the super police state you speak of as he clearly cares very little for our constitutional rights. Hillary appeals to those who want action but are not willing to surrender their personal freedom.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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wiseguy wrote: They have no choice but to come out strong against terrorists. These attacks scare the hell out people and they want something done about them now. Con man Don appeals to the people who would support the super police state you speak of as he clearly cares very little for our constitutional rights. Hillary appeals to those who want action but are not willing to surrender their personal freedom.

8) When people make decisions out of fear many times they make the wrong ones. In a way we have already handed over many of our basic rights with the establishment of the Dept of Homeland Security, and have already taken the first step towards a Super Police State. In many cases it's needless repetition since we already have the FBI and the CIA, not to mention the council of security advisors. Don't be surprised if at some future date we all have to carry papers like in those old WWII movies and have some national police force checking them. When you consider that even the right to a speedy trial and habeas corpus have come under attack in recent years, these are the most trying times in our history since the Civil War. You have to ask the question do you want a novice handling these important questions, or do your want an experienced hand that considers issues on many levels? If the answer is the ladder then you have to go with Hillary. Fortunately she is once again up in the polls, so the recent concern over her health seems to have passed. It is important for her to be ahead in the polls before the first debate on Monday.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) 46 days and counting, the debates start this Monday and the race is too close to call. One thing I have noticed Trumps support stays constant at around 40%, while Hillary's keeps going up and down between a high of 50% and a lows of 41%, depending on what kind of a week she is having. This 40% is the hardcore Trump supporters. What is up for grabs is the small undecided part of the voters and those who are going to throw away their vote on 3rd party candidates, who don't have a chance of winning. Even though they can't win they might take away enough votes from either Trump or Hillary to let the other win, making them a minority president with no clear mandate. Even with a mandate Obama couldn't achieve much because of the dead locked Congress and Senate. If it turns out to be too close to call then we could end up with the court or the Congress deciding who the next President is. If this occurs then the losing side will feel the election was stolen by the victor.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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If you go by head to head polls the race does look close. But if you look at the electoral map it shows that Hilary is leading in exactly the states she needs to win the election. Nate Silver's election forecast today gives Hillary a 62% chance of winning. I think her chances will only improve after the debates.

Those people who talk about voting for a third party drive me crazy with their "you know there are more than two choices" rhetoric. They can't seem to understand that any such votes are simply symbolic and may possibly help the person they want least to win.

In the very unlikely event that the court or Congress has to make the call I seriously doubt they would choose con man Don.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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wiseguy wrote:
Those people who talk about voting for a third party drive me crazy with their "you know there are more than two choices" rhetoric. They can't seem to understand that any such votes are simply symbolic and may possibly help the person they want least to win.
8) I'm old enough to remember how these third party candidates can effect an important race. Ross Perot enabled Bill Clinton to be a minority elected President Bill's first time around. Ralph Nader taking 46,000 votes away from Al Gore in Florida gave us Bush II, and everything that went along with that administration. So yes it is not only symbolic but also can lead to dangerous political results.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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I've talked with people who despise con man Don but say they can't in good conscious vote for Hillary. Most of them cannot grasp the concept of how voting third party could help con man Don get elected. These are the people who should just stay home on election day.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) They have every right to cast their vote, just like the rest of us wiseguy. Even though their symbolic vote will have very real consequences for the rest of the voters. To deny this right cuts at the core of our Democracy and we cannot afford to give up any more of our principles, no matter how torn they seem to be right now. If we cannot trust the will of the people anymore, then what do we have left? :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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I am beginning to not trust the will of the people because way too many of them are acting like idiots. For the first time in my life I am ashamed of half of my fellow citizens.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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8) When I say the will of the people I mean one person one vote. I have always had problems with this electoral system of ours, it was put in place when 95% of the population was illiterate. It should be repealed and we should finally get with the majority of modern democracies and elect our President by the direct popular vote of the people.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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Literacy of the population was never one of the considerations when the electoral college was formed. Popular vote was not implemented because of the lack of information about the candidates available to the voters as a whole. Of course that is no longer the case. When I said some people should just stay home on election day I was talking about those who support no candidate and just want to cast a protest vote for a candidate solely because they are not in a major party. They are not taking their duty seriously. They are undermining those who do.
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Re: New KJ, I have some questions

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wiseguy wrote:Literacy of the population was never one of the considerations when the electoral college was formed. Popular vote was not implemented because of the lack of information about the candidates available to the voters as a whole. Of course that is no longer the case. When I said some people should just stay home on election day I was talking about those who support no candidate and just want to cast a protest vote for a candidate solely because they are not in a major party. They are not taking their duty seriously. They are undermining those who do.

8) I beg to differ with you several things were put in place when this country was founded to insure the elite of the day could retain their property and power. Education was a big factor in keeping the lower classes in their place. At the founding of this country 95% of the people lived on farms and for the most part could not read or write, they could make their mark. After all if you can't write how are you going to vote? Public education changed that, at one time attending school was not considered a right, but rather a privilege extended to the better off. This carried into modern times, in Oklahoma where my father lived during the Depression a poor child could expect to go to the 4th grade, after that if they could not afford to buy the books, yes you had to buy your own textbooks, then your education stopped at the 4th grade. That is why he always encouraged his children to either get a trade or an education. Institutions like slavery were protected and it was written into the Constitution that a slave was considered 3/5ths of a man and his vote could be cast by his master. Not to mention it was the practice in this country for many years at the start to allow only property owners to vote. This meant that large segments of the population couldn't vote, including women who only got the vote during the 1920's. If you look at the history of this country the elites have always tried to keep the vote down so they could continue in power. That is why it is important for everyone to vote, for a major long term democracy we have one of the lowest voter turnouts of any major industrial nation. A recent example of this type of voter suppression can be seen in the states controlled by Republican legislatures that have tried to keep minorities from voting, under the guise of voter fraud, which very rarely happens. The electoral college itself came about because the ruling elite was afraid of the masses and did not trust the will of the people, they wanted an extra layer to protect themselves against the popular vote of the ruled.
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