New KJ, I have some questions

[wiseguy]

Of course the GOP will have to waste another 6 or 7 million on another postured investigation... it's what they do. It's how they justify getting paid while accomplishing nothing.

[The Lone Ranger]

With all of the police shootings and police getting shot news coming out this last week it is setting the stage for the conventions to be quite active. Especially the Republican convention which is probably going to see heavy duty demonstrating by both the Liberals and the Conservative supporters of the GOP. I noticed that Trump's latest speeches are touching on the theme of law and order. This is a page out of the Nixon play book of 1968, in which Nixon played the law and order card. To a greater extent George Wallace played that same tune as well, helped to split the Democratic ticket, and Nixon won the White House. Just like the burning of the Reichstag was the penultimate step towards Hitler gaining complete control of the destiny of Germany, foreign terrorism and a break down in law and order is setting the stage for someone who promises to restore order. This is Trumps theme make American Great Again, restore order, keep out all none American values, become an isolationist nation, nationalism. This is the candidate that quotes Mussolini the leader that inspired Hitler. I hope all of this national drama will not scare the American people into letting Trump gain complete control over the destiny of the U.S.A.

[wiseguy]

The bigger issues concerning the voters who will decide this election are guns and keeping them out of the hands of the wrong people. Con man Donald fails miserably at this to the point of being counterproductive. These scenarios you speak of are not going to alter the fact that he we be defeated soundly by women and minorities. There simply are not enough angry white male voters to save him. Even as the recent events unfold Hillary continues to widen the gap in head to head polls both at the national level and in swing states.

[Paradigm Karaoke]

you guys are both still under the assumption that the voters have any say in the elections?
Her highness was promised the job 8 years ago and has been appointed President.
the votes unfortunately do not decide the job, the people at the top do. these jobs are not elected, they are appointed.

[wiseguy]

you guys are both still under the assumption that the voters have any say in the elections?
Her highness was promised the job 8 years ago and has been appointed President.
the votes unfortunately do not decide the job, the people at the top do. these jobs are not elected, they are appointed.

And I thought Bigdog was the only one here who fell for batshit crazy conspiracy theories.

[The Lone Ranger]

you guys are both still under the assumption that the voters have any say in the elections?
Her highness was promised the job 8 years ago and has been appointed President.
the votes unfortunately do not decide the job, the people at the top do. these jobs are not elected, they are appointed.

And I thought Bigdog was the only one here who fell for batshit crazy conspiracy theories.

Is it really totally batshit wiseguy? I think there are elements of truth on both sides. I am beginning to have serious doubts just how much these elections really mean. It is no lie that big money has corrupted our political system and globalization has eroded the sovereignty of individual nations, to the point they can't do what is best for their citizens. The global good is the greater good over the good of any single country. This whole process has been going on since the end of WWII, with the collapse of Russia that left only the U.S. as the only superpower standing. We used to think our republic was immune from the graft and corruption that have plagued so many other countries. While I still think we choose our President, do we really? The deck is stacked so big business and multinational corporations internationally call the shots. Look what we have to choose from Hillary who has been part of the current system for decades or conman Donald who is one of the manipulators turned politician, is this really a choice? The example of England's vote on the EU has driven home to me if the voter does turn on the global order there is a heavy price to pay. Just saying.

[wiseguy]

Unless you want to contend that we are being lied to about the popular vote count in our elections then there is no other conclusion than American voters (in the vast majority of instances) choose their representatives. To claim that they are "appointed" is ludicrous and holds no "element of truth".

[The Lone Ranger]

Unless you want to contend that we are being lied to about the popular vote count in our elections then there is no other conclusion than American voters (in the vast majority of instances) choose their representatives. To claim that they are "appointed" is ludicrous and holds no "element of truth".

I'm not saying we don't vote for the public offices, what I'm saying is the system is rigged especially in a two party system. When the choice boils down to two elite individuals both of who have been manipulating the system for decades is there really a choice? It is like going to the crap table and big business is betting the pass and don't pass at the same time. The last budget passed cut taxes once again for the rich, Paul Ryan said the budget office reports the revenues have dropped surprise surprise. What is his solution to further cut programs that help the poor and middle class. We are being played as a nation, and the rich are getting richer, and buying more influence, so they can become even richer.

[wiseguy]

The "manipulation" of the system can be laid directly at the feet of the American voting public. By not doing their due diligence, and voting out their representatives who are not looking out for THEIR interest, they are surrendering their right to fair representation. Day after day I converse in person or online with people complaining about what their elected officials are, or are not, doing for them. Almost invariably they are clueless of how these officials vote on issues even though it is a matter of public record. Hell, the majority of them are clueless of the basics of how our government operates. People from both parties are guilty of this although in recent years Republicans have been consistently voting against their own best interest. We are in the shape we are in because Americans are too lazy to inform themselves. If they spent one quarter of the time researching the records of their elected officials, as they do texting each other and posting idiotic videos and memes on Facebook, things would be a lot different. We cannot get played unless we allow ourselves to get played.

[The Lone Ranger]

ame

The "manipulation" of the system can be laid directly at the feet of the American voting public. By not doing their due diligence, and voting out their representatives who are not looking out for THEIR interest, they are surrendering their right to fair representation. Day after day I converse in person or online with people complaining about what their elected officials are, or are not, doing for them. Almost invariably they are clueless of how these officials vote on issues even though it is a matter of public record. Hell, the majority of them are clueless of the basics of how our government operates. People from both parties are guilty of this although in recent years Republicans have been consistently voting against their own best interest. We are in the shape we are in because Americans are too lazy to inform themselves. If they spent one quarter of the time researching the records of their elected officials, as they do texting each other and posting idiotic videos and memes on Facebook, things would be a lot different. We cannot get played unless we allow ourselves to get played.

In order to manipulate the system one must understand the nature of the system. We have a two party system there is no other choice, and you must select either from column A or column B. Even if you do your do diligence wiseguy you have to choose one or the other. If both choices do not represent the good of the majority but rather the will of the rich minority, what kind of a choice is that? Just like most voters are ill informed, most political hacks can't do what they know is right, because either they don't know what is right, or they don't care. They know that they want to stay in office and that costs money. Even the tea baggers who once loathed incumbents want to stay in office, and are learning to play the game. We no longer have statesmen, but what we have is a class of career politicans. It isn't all the voter's fault, if they were given a true choice, I think they would make the right choice.

[wiseguy]

Congressmen and Senators don't run for office to serve just one term. They desperately want to be reelected. Yes, we must select from either column A or B, but if the one we select does not do the will of his/her constituents, informed voters can send them packing in the next election. If this was the norm rather than the exception these representatives would do a much better job of representing who they are supposed to represent. The only time big money talks is when it can buy elections. It can only buy elections from uninformed voters.

The voters in this country still hold all the power. We can demand that it's our way or the highway. This is why Bernie Sanders is so important. We need more politicians to follow his lead. To join the revolution and stand up for the other 99%. To hold our leaders' feet to the fire until they bend to OUR will. It can happen.

[The Lone Ranger]

Congressmen and Senators don't run for office to serve just one term. They desperately want to be reelected. Yes, we must select from either column A or B, but if the one we select does not do the will of his/her constituents, informed voters can send them packing in the next election. If this was the norm rather than the exception these representatives would do a much better job of representing who they are supposed to represent. The only time big money talks is when it can buy elections. It can only buy elections from uninformed voters.

The voters in this country still hold all the power. We can demand that it's our way or the highway. This is why Bernie Sanders is so important. We need more politicians to follow his lead. To join the revolution and stand up for the other 99%. To hold our leaders' feet to the fire until they bend to OUR will. It can happen.

One of the ways to curb the abuses of political hacks trying to hang on to power forever, is term limits, it's two terms for a President, why not 4 terms for a Congressman and 2 terms for a Senator? 12 years should be enough time for a political person to do what they need to do. Then they might actually do what is good for the majority they are supposed to be representing.

[Paradigm Karaoke]

look at this election for starters....
if you are in Chicago, and a Democrat, your only option is Hillary. why? Sanders was not even on the ballot. you could not vote for anyone but Clinton because they purposely left Sanders off the ballot.
that's rigged.
If you are in Manhattan, and Democrat, the Sanders button on all voting machines was non functional. your only option was to vote Clinton.
that's rigged.
If you are in Phoenix, and Democrat, your voting party was changed to "Republican" or "no party preference" so you were given a provisional ballot. those do not get counted in primary elections so you could not vote for anybody at all or vote for a Republican (this is a republican state).
that's rigged.

i don't know about every state, i only have personal first hand experience in these three, but it is interresting that in the only three states i have first hand experience in, the procedure was rigged, and done so blatantly.
In AZ for example, the state house convened a meeting when the problem was announced. their response..."too bad, we have better things to do than deal with voting fraud."
the winners were announced nearly 4 hours before polling closed.

if this is not rigged, i don't know what is.

[The Lone Ranger]

Voter suppression is nothing new, Republican controlled state houses have been passing laws to suppress minority voters for sometime now. They know that minorities especially the Hispanic vote is growing while the number of old white voters keeps declining. This might be the last election the GOP can win, every year their voter base contracts, and they are not expanding their political tent. The Donald is not helping the brand by his attacks on women, minorities, and calling for yet another tax cut for the rich.

[wiseguy]

look at this election for starters....
if you are in Chicago, and a Democrat, your only option is Hillary. why? Sanders was not even on the ballot. you could not vote for anyone but Clinton because they purposely left Sanders off the ballot.
that's rigged.
If you are in Manhattan, and Democrat, the Sanders button on all voting machines was non functional. your only option was to vote Clinton.
that's rigged.
If you are in Phoenix, and Democrat, your voting party was changed to "Republican" or "no party preference" so you were given a provisional ballot. those do not get counted in primary elections so you could not vote for anybody at all or vote for a Republican (this is a republican state).
that's rigged.

i don't know about every state, i only have personal first hand experience in these three, but it is interresting that in the only three states i have first hand experience in, the procedure was rigged, and done so blatantly.
In AZ for example, the state house convened a meeting when the problem was announced. their response..."too bad, we have better things to do than deal with voting fraud."
the winners were announced nearly 4 hours before polling closed.

if this is not rigged, i don't know what is.

Sanders was NOT omitted from the Chicago ballot. You're believing rumors and not checking the facts.
http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-chicago-ballot/

There were various voting irregularities during the primaries and all were or are being investigated. But one important fact remains. If absolutely none of these events happened Hillary would still have won by a wide margin. She would still have received millions of more votes than Sanders. Hillary Clinton was chosen by the voters... period.

I'm not saying that rigged elections aren't happening. Gerrymandering is commonplace and the most blatant form of rigging an election. Voter suppression is right at the top of GOP election strategies.