I'm F...ed Up...

[Bigdog]

So last week I'm doing my show and there were a good many singers...I use the insertion method for adding new singers to the rotation depending on how many new singers I get at one time. I'll call him Ralph....has been there all day long pounding them down....And Ralph always wants to know when he's singing...can't come around fast enough....the rotation was at least 1 hour by now.....and he's getting antsy to sing....right at the end of the rotation Bob comes in and I had him a microphone and ask him what he's singing next.....well Ralph sees this and proceeds to flip out....

Bob comes out whenever he isn't working and he'll drive anywhere on his motorcycle in the snow and pouring rain....now let me explain that if it was Ralph that just walked in I would have done the exact same thing for him....

So now drunken Ralph comes up bytchin' about how i'm not being fair...he's been there all day spending money....and he won't let it go....keeps coming up and telling me how F ed up I am...it's not right blahhh blahh blaahh...

I finally had enough of Ralphs mouth...oh and Ralph is about 8 inches taller and 100 pounds heavier than me...

Well he takes the bar owner outside to complain about his unfair treatment....the bar owner comes in to me and he knows Bob is a regular and I put him at the end of the rotation....

I told the bar owner to keep him away from me or I was going to walk....and that I wasn't getting paid enough to put up with Ralph....

At the end of the night the bar owner come over to pay me and we had a little talk....and I explained to him that any time this happens he will have 5 minutes to make up his mind about which one of us was going to stay...me or Ralph but that we both wouldn't be there at the same time after the 5 minutes were up...I walked before on stupid bar owners and I'm sure I'll be doing it again..

I told the bar owner someone over served him and now I had to deal with him and I'm wasn't going to do it...he told me he gives the other KJ problems too.....I know one KJ he won't be giving problems to ever again....can't wait for this Friday night...

[The Lone Ranger]

There are several things going on here all at once. For one thing the bar manger should be keeping a tighter rein on the bar tenders or cocktail waitress'
s. If a customer is over served in Calif and the customer jumps in his car and kills someone, the bar that served him or her is also responsible. If it is apparent that the customer in under the influence, it is the responsibility of the bar manger to have the customer get it together or get out. The drunken customer could be a danger to other customers or to the host, their anger is being directed against. If he or she is being served mixed drinks they should be cut down to the point you are trying to sober the customer up before he or she leaves. Also free coffee, or soda, or water should be offered. I know coffee then you have a wide awake drunk, the best of all worlds, just a joke.


As far the the rotation goes it is the choice of who ever is running the show. The problem with any rotation system is the time element. The more successful the show the longer the wait. Most singers want the mic in their hand every 30 minutes, if the wait is longer than 60 minutes they start to lose interest. It's just basic Karaoke Hosting 101. I do believe that the decisions for running the show should be left up to the host and not the manager while the show is on. After the show the manager has the right to fire the host if he doesn't like the way the show is being run. Not while the show is going on. Just like the host has the responsibility to finish the job he was hired to do.


This all falls under having everyone's duties and responsibilities being clearly defined and everyone working together to solve problems. The answer is not a confrontation but a meeting between you and the manager. You can setup a system of rules that will deal with the Ralph's of the world. If it is approached from the stand point that you are both working to solve the problem it will be more productive for both of you, instead of playing the blame game and maybe costing you a job, all over Ralph, who doesn't seem to be worth it for either of you.

[mnementh]

It's not often I disagree with you Bigdog but here, I do.

If I'd been in a bar, buying drinks and paying your wages effectively and I'd been in a rotation on a karaoke, then some guy wandering in and going straight to the top of the queue would p*** me off enormously.

I don't care if he walks through Hell to get to the karaoke, if I'm there first, then I sing first.

My system runs on that system, first in, first on, everyone of my punters knows this.

Any new singers go to the end of the line.

Sandy.

[mr.dj]

It's not often I disagree with you Bigdog but here, I do.

If I'd been in a bar, buying drinks and paying your wages effectively and I'd been in a rotation on a karaoke, then some guy wandering in and going straight to the top of the queue would p*** me off enormously.

I don't care if he walks through Hell to get to the karaoke, if I'm there first, then I sing first.

My system runs on that system, first in, first on, everyone of my punters knows this.

Any new singers go to the end of the line.

Sandy.

I agree with Sandy here.

[The Lone Ranger]

[quote="mnementh"]It's not often I disagree with you Bigdog but here, I do.

If I'd been in a bar, buying drinks and paying your wages effectively and I'd been in a rotation on a karaoke, then some guy wandering in and going straight to the top of the queue would p*** me off enormously.

I don't care if he walks through Hell to get to the karaoke, if I'm there first, then I sing first.

My system runs on that system, first in, first on, everyone of my punters knows this.

Any new singers go to the end of the line.

Sandy.[/quote]

Sandy I also ran what I call a strict rotation type of format, I had a large board everyone could see and I placed the names on as singers entered. That way all could see who was next and where they were in the rotation. I always sang last to let everyone know we would be starting at the top and going through all the singers on the list before anyone else could be added.

Every host does their rotation with tweaks but basically it is the strict rotation and the insertion process or variations of the two. No matter which system you use they both have the strong and weak points. The insertion method upsets the basic established rotation and confuses singers as to who they are following. The strict rotation weak point is if singers can time it they can arrive and be put on the list before it goes around again. This is what happens with the bar hopper singers. They know when they can get on the end of rotation without waiting all night, sing their one song and then go to the next gig on their list. If several are close by they can get the mic in their hands every 30 minutes or less.

There is no perfect system and all can be gamed if you know the principles of how they run. The rotation system used by the host reflects their own Idea of the system that is most comfortable for them. To me the strict system was the way to go and I really never got any complaints. Which ever system you use you have to be consistent with how you employ it. If it is felt by the singers you play favorites or you do not stick with a fair approach to all singers they will go somewhere else.

[CORVETTE]

I don't disagree with getting a regular singer up who gets there late one night, but i would have at least waited a few songs and left him to get himself a drink. Its always difficult when its busy. At my friday venue i regularly have 24 singers making it about a 1 & 1/2 hr wait between songs (i dont play music in between) but still get non regulars singing, then coming up 5 minutes later to say they put 2 songs in and cant understand why they have to wait. I find the easiest way to shut them up is do a quick maths lesson for them over the microphone. I generally get applauded by my regulars for this as they are aware I am as fair as can be. Your regulars don't mind if you slip in another regular as they are aware you would do the same for them. If the regular always comes in late then i would put him towards the back of the queue.
You do need to remember without your regular support you wont have a karaoke show. But i'm with Bigdog that I wouldnt put up with abuse

[wiseguy]

I'm with Bigdog 100% here. In my shows I always try to let everyone sing at least once (within reason). If a new singer turns in a song within the last 30 minutes of a show where there are a lot of singers they are not going to get up. That's their fault, not mine. But if they turn a song in an hour before the end of the show I'm going to fit them in. It doesn't matter if they're a "regular singer" or not.

If a singer wants to get the maximum number of songs in they need to come in early and turn their songs in right away. The fact is that most singers wait until they have a few drinks in them before turning in a request. Some will wait until I have 20 singers already and then expect to sing every half hour.

How much a person spends has no bearing on how often they sing. The person who nurses a soda all night gets the same treatment as the one who spends a couple hundred bucks buying rounds. I run a very strict rules of rotation and if people didn't think it was fair they wouldn't attend my shows in the numbers that they do.

As for the unruly drunk, you have two choices. You either have the management remove them or you handle it yourself. I prefer the latter but I certainly can't fault someone who goes to the management. If the management refuses to handle the situation then your only choice is to offer them an ultimatum.

[Bigdog]

First of all...Ralph was too drunk to be getting served anything else.....now think about this..why was Ralph still getting served when it was technically against the law....Ralph is a regular at the bar.

Second Ralph would have gotten the same singing consideration.

Third Ralph bytches to all the KJs. ....making Ralph a complaining troublemaking whiner.

Forth...several years ago I did a job and had a patron that was thinking I kept doing him wrong every week ...which I wasn't....long story short i walked out one night when I got there to set up and he was sitting in the bar....I went to the owner and asked if he was staying...he said he was and I said bye I'm not..

3 months later that same trouble maker pulled a gun on someone in the bar....THAT COULD HAVE BEEN ME. 6 months later another trouble maker the bar owner kept letting back in parked his car on a guy and killed him in the bar parking lot....the owner lost everything....

So now how many of you think you're being paid enough to baby sit A holes?

I'm not.

My policy will continue to be based on the 5 minute warning.....either they leave right now or I am....I'm giving them a clear choice to keep the guy that will cost them money or keep the guy that's making them money...

I have a friend that quit 25 years of DJing because he had a gun pulled on him because someone didn't like the music he was playing...

Either Ralph is going to play nice or he will be playing with/by himself...

[The Lone Ranger]

All of these problems you have listed bigdog go back directly to the bar manager not doing his or here job. Sounds like the type of bars you have listed don't need bouncers they need the riot squad. That is why later in my hosting career if focused on private parties, private clubs, weddings, etc. etc. etc. That is where the real money is and you don't have to deal with the riff raff that frequent some establishments. I was lucky that karaoke only supplemented my income and I could pick and choose the places I worked. More than once I quit a gig I didn't like and quickly found something else.

[mnementh]

Hi again.

Lone Ranger, I appreciate your system but my "strict" rotation isn't as you describe.

Although "strict", it is dynamic in the sense that singers CAN put up multiple songs but they will sing ONCE per rotation.

Also, any new singers added to the list go to the back of the queue but the singer at the top of the list ALSO goes to the end of the list after he/she sings, assuming they have multiplesongs up.

If they don't have more than one song up, they need to re-list to get back onto the rotation.

No one jumps the queue in my rotation, so bar hoppers have no advantage other than if they come in, put a song up, then go elsewhere for a timed estimate to when they think they'll be up.

At that point, any singer gets three shouts, then they're out.

If not in the bar, then their name is removed.

Sandy.

[wiseguy]

Hi again.

Lone Ranger, I appreciate your system but my "strict" rotation isn't as you describe.

Although "strict", it is dynamic in the sense that singers CAN put up multiple songs but they will sing ONCE per rotation.

Also, any new singers added to the list go to the back of the queue but the singer at the top of the list ALSO goes to the end of the list after he/she sings, assuming they have multiplesongs up.

If they don't have more than one song up, they need to re-list to get back onto the rotation.

No one jumps the queue in my rotation, so bar hoppers have no advantage other than if they come in, put a song up, then go elsewhere for a timed estimate to when they think they'll be up.

At that point, any singer gets three shouts, then they're out.

If not in the bar, then their name is removed.

Sandy.

So what do you do on a night when you have 20 plus singers and still an hour to go and a new singer turns in a request? If you're going to put them at the bottom you might as well tell them that you're not going to let them sing. That's a good way to lose a prospective new regular.

None of my regulars mind when I fit someone in near the last hour of the show. They know that if they have to work an afternoon shift they can stop by and get a song in if they get there in time.

[mnementh]

Hi wiseguy,

I tell the new singer he/she almost certainly won't get on.

If they want to wait, fine.

If not, also fine.

If I have 20 singers, the bar manager is selling loads of drinks and is a happy man. He pays my wages.

My regular singers know the routine and turn up in plenty of time for the show.

Sandy.

[The Lone Ranger]

That is the whole answer to the rotation problem being consistent which ever system or variation you want to use. If you have been around awhile singers are aware of how the host runs his or her show. That is the reason hosts develop groups that follow them. They like the way the host does the show and administers the rotation system. Like Sandy says "My regular singers know the routine". That is the host bread and butter his core regulars, the rest is just what I call casual singers. The way you make casual singers regulars is giving them a fair shot. How you do that with out offending your regular supporters is the host's job.

[wiseguy]

That is the whole answer to the rotation problem being consistent which ever system or variation you want to use. If you have been around awhile singers are aware of how the host runs his or her show. That is the reason hosts develop groups that follow them. They like the way the host does the show and administers the rotation system. Like Sandy says "My regular singers know the routine". That is the host bread and butter his core regulars, the rest is just what I call casual singers. The way you make casual singers regulars is giving them a fair shot. How you do that with out offending your regular supporters is the host's job.

That about wraps it up in a nutshell. A loyal following is a sure key to success and a fair singer rotation is the first step in developing that following.

[Bigdog]

UPDATE:

Ralph was in the bar when I got there to set up.....but he finished his beer and made sure I saw him leaving....not to return.

Later the bar owner told me he was in the bar after he flipped out and was real apologetic about what happened.....

His actions don't seem to match what his mouth said because there was no apology to me and he made it very obvious that he was leaving because I was there....

You know what....SCREW RALPH...

My policy still stands....5 minutes....he leaves or I do....