Impressions Of The Summit

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:39 pm

The Lone Ranger wrote: That is the whole point Bigdog they don't want to kill any business, they want a piece of every karaoke service business. One of the points of the summit sales pitch, that is what I think their entire piracy message was, look ok you have been bad, but we are willing to forgive you Mr. Pirate. Not only forgive you but give you a cheap path to legality. Like you said your library cost you ten's of thousands of dollars. Now you can subscribe to Cloud for 99.00 a month, and avoid legal problems. In other words they are selling insurance, protection whatever it is you want to call it. As far as us old timers are concerned, we can get with the program or get out of the business. I'm lucky that I can get out, I feel for those who can't. What is going to happen is all the independent karaoke service contractors are going to disappear. Those who remain are going to have new permanent partners, getting their piece of the action. The hosts will be like sharecroppers, the manus supply the product you supplying the labor, and then having to share the harvest aka profit with the master.

It's always been that way. You pay for product that they supply, you use the product and then you turn around and buy more product. I fail to see the difference between the two scenerios. You really don't own the product because it has to be licensed for commercial use.

Post by **wiseguy** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:59 pm

DanG2006 wrote:It's PRS that put the restrictions on overseas karaoke not US karaoke labels.

Yes, but PRS represents the karaoke labels. I don't think they will be able to avoid the SCOTUS decision.

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:56 pm

Dannie when you say SC first, CB second, Unlicensed brands never, are you talking about material that is not currently licensed? If that is the case you will have to remove tracks from both the manus you have listed, since many are not licensed right now. In fact DTE has dropped a good portion of the old CB library where licensing was not resumed.

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:13 pm

Once you have Sc or CB in your possession, it is yours to keep and use. Possession is nine tenths of the law. I bought/ leased my songs with the thought that the lisence was present when the set or discs were pressed. Just because licensing may not have been renewed does not make what I have in my possession unlicensed. All I have in my collection I got before the change of the rules came into effect.

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:22 pm

If that is true Dan then the hosts that own their discs of the orphan/abandon ware such as DK, SGB and others bought before the change of rules will get to keep them. Why then is Kurt and the other reps at the summit claiming they will get the publishers to have hosts remove any old unlicensed labels from their library.? Is that just an empty threat or do they really intend to follow through? They would have to be able to force the old time hosts away from these products in order to lease and rent their new products and services, right?

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:55 am

The Lone Ranger wrote: If that is true Dan then the hosts that own their discs of the orphan/abandon ware such as DK, SGB and others bought before the change of rules will get to keep them. Why then is Kurt and the other reps at the summit claiming they will get the publishers to have hosts remove any old unlicensed labels from their library.? Is that just an empty threat or do they really intend to follow through? They would have to be able to force the old time hosts away from these products in order to lease and rent their new products and services, right?

This is total BS...

If that were the case...any old book in any library would be in the garbage.

Including the Bible..

All old movies would be gone...all old TV shows would be gone...

It's out there. I bought it legally and I own it until I die...and I'll use it too.

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:40 am

It might be all BS but that is what SC and now CB/PR/WWD/DTE do spin the BS to created an illusion. That illusion is that they are going to be in control of the supply of karaoke music. If the host wants to stay in business they are going to have to buy whatever these two are selling. Either that or get out of Dodge. I have worked too long as a solo act, and don't need any new partners this late in the game. There is hardly enough meat on the bone anymore for one, much less a bunch of free loading relatives, that suddenly want to be my new best friends, for a price that is. When I start to have to pay for friends in this business, it's time to quit. That is part of the reason why I have decided to hang up the speakers after Oct 31st.

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:14 am

OK...how many think Sound Choice could end up hurting the karaoke business from their greedy actions?

Do you think their sales are up now?

Do you think more legal KJs are getting fed up with their Nazi tactics?

Do you really think the pirates are shaking in their boots?

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:28 am

One thing that I find strange is there seems to be some kind of disconnect between the legal victories the manus claim and their own facts that came out of the summit. Even in a down economy there has been a 10% increase in the number of hosts and venues that offer karaoke. If you follow their own numbers at least 90 to 95% of these new shows are illegal. The legal spokes man for SC James claims there have been over 100 of these mass lawsuits filed and around 1,000 hosts and venues either put out of business, or forced to become legal. Even if this claim is true, it proves quite plainly that the legal process over the last 4 years is a net loser. There are actually more illegal hosts and venues than when this legal process began. This reminds me of Charlie Sheen "Winning". There is only one reason for this legal process, and that is the feeble hope that it is going to boost sales of product through intimidation.

djBe · Post by **djBe** » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:26 pm

I just bring my discs as backup to all my shows along with my hard drive. The new music i have been buying are discs off ebay - singer solution/fastrax/quikhitz/pophits - no complaints on the tuneage so far.

I haven't bothered putting them on my harddrive yet( which is comprised of chartbuster, sweet georgia brown, pophits and others)....i just play the new discs when new material is requested, amounting to about 20 percent of my show, the other 80percent is off the hardrive run to a player, no laptop. None of my sound choice collection is on hard drive, when a singer wants SC i pop in the disc, if i have it. or I give them CB.

I would never do an audit, or allow SC or CB or any manufacturer to dictate my activities. I have the discs to prove I am legal and thats that. I also suspect I have been checked out along with others in my neck of Carolina but I sincerely believe two large cases of discs is deterrent enough to dissuade them from the expense of someone spending hours upon hours verifying every single hardriven song to one of my discs....not when every other KJ in my region (or damn close to it) has nothing but a laptop larded with piracy and is more ripe for their talons

I am in agreement with bigdog and other KJs uninterested in signing on with a streaming service or "cloud." Its not costeffective to those of us who own most of the music we would ever need in a show - since 80 to 90 percent of shows is older, classic music. Its far cheaper just to add a few discs every month.

I do realize that KJs who can instantly access any song at anytime (legal or otherwise) have a marketing advantage over KJs who must order music delivered by mail or through download purchase between shows. Since my venue do have wifi and i do bring my laptop along (for reference, not for hosting) I have the capability to buy a song on the spot but really, most people can just find a song to sing and are happy to simply suggest songs for a later date.

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:26 am

I agree totally with you that most legal old school hosts would be uninterested in signing up, and that it would not be cost effective. On the other hand if you plan on being in the industry for any length of time, you might have to think over the cost effective part of the problem again. Right now the two suing manus SC and CB/PR/WWD/DTE can name you in a frivolous lawsuit, tie up your business, ruin your reputation, and cost you income. In addition to that they can force you to hire an attorney to defend yourself against their bogus charges, at your expense. Unlike criminal court in civil court you are not presumed innocent until proven guilty. Also the burden of proof is much lower than in criminal court. The manus use these facts to leverage settlements or compel hosts to do things, they would otherwise not do. This is the old story of a company tying up another company in court, in order to compel the defendant to do their bidding.

DanG2006 · Post by **DanG2006** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:46 am

All we own is the plastic that the music came on. Anything else is the licensed property of the manufacturers and publishers.

Bigdog · Post by **Bigdog** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:09 pm

DanG2006 wrote:All we own is the plastic that the music came on. Anything else is the licensed property of the manufacturers and publishers.

No...I didn't spend over $50,000 on worthless pieces of plastic..

I do karaoke for free (I play karaoke music in bars for free to show off my singing ability and other people try to do better) .....The bar owners are just offering me a token donation..

for being such a nice guy...

Post by **wiseguy** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:30 pm

DanG2006 wrote:All we own is the plastic that the music came on. Anything else is the licensed property of the manufacturers and publishers.

We bought the right to use that music that came in the plastic.

The Lone Ranger · Post by **The Lone Ranger** » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:30 am

What we bought seems to be a lot of trouble, since the karaoke manus have decided to press rights that weren't plainly spelled out at the time of the original purchase. The amount of our liability seems to have been limited at least by the federal court. These mass filed suits are seeking damages for "irreparable grievous harm". In the Panama City Florida case the damages awarded to the plaintiffs aka the manus was the fair retail value of the stolen product or $5,000.00 no court costs. Hardly worth the time and legal cost to sue since their lawyer James makes $400.00 an hour. In California this was repeated since the out of court settlements averaged $5,000.00 a piece. Still 41 defendants were dismissed and paid nothing. I haven't seen anything stating that these defendants were charged later, so they just walked and didn't pay anything. I'm sure that made the one's who settled feel real good. I'm sure if a host had a good lawyer he could get the retail award knocked down to wholesale what do you think?